Mana Soundbases with Shahinian Arcs

It will tighten the bass - i.e reduce boom and overhang.

Raphael,
I'm curious, do you have an issue with the bass on Shahinian Arcs? I know that people who have tried using spikes etc on them have not been impressed with the results and have reverted to the original feet. Due to the upward firing drivers, Shahinian speakers don't conform to a lot of the normal rules for speakers. The sound from mine changes significantly as the speaker position is rotated as well as moving them from and to adjacent walls.
Noel.

I use RDC1 cones under the corners of my Arcs with some sucess. I did this following a review in Hifi+ in 1999, you can still see it on the web. I would not say it is a staggering imporvement but does provide greater coherence. It is interesting that some people have boomy base, I have quite dry base from the Arcs but have had a room resonance. I cured most of that by removing a couple of doors between lounge and dining room allowing better disappation of the base energy.

Brendan

Hi Raphael,

I was suffering with my suspended wooden floor
and now use soundbases under my arcs.
The improvement has been worth every penny spent
(second hand that is).
I've now got the speakers only 6" from the rear wall and the bass is very tight and controlled at what ever volume I choose. In fact so much so
I'm considering another pair.

Andy.

Like Noel says, these beauties just don't conform to the natural laws of physics. In particular, the sound changes dramatically if you alter their height with respect to the listening position - I need to stand on a chair to get books down from the top of a bookshelf in my listening room and was gobsmaked by how different everything sounded when I was standing up there - prob because the units were now firing directly at me and the radiator was more audible. Really weird and a phenomenon I didn't experience with my SBLS to any like the same degree.

Now I doubt raising them a few cm with soudbases will make much of a difference to height but I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up prefering them with the good old plastic knobs on terra firma (cheaper as well). In any event, let us know if you do try.

Steve

Sorry Andy - didn't see your post (should stop skip reading!). I'm interested that you prefer the ARCS with bases and very interested that you can get the radiators so very close to the back wall without horrific boom. Care to expound a little more for the evangelical Shahinianists amongst us?

Steve

Whilst we are on the subject of Arcs, how do you folks get on with image height with them. That's one aspect I've struggled with for some time. Certainly happy with all other aspects of their performance. Oh and yes, tell us how you manage to get so close to the back wall. I need around 2 feet to get the best out of them.

Brendan

Brendan - for me its the image height that is one of their major plus points (although I should point out that they don't image well vs other speakers due to the multiple drivers in various directions. The image is hugely spacious though). The way the music is thrown up into the air between the speakers really grabs the aural attention and makes me sit up and listen, esp when I should be doing other things. A friend has obelisks and while these are probably better than the ARCs all round, they are more conventional in their image placement. I look on this feature of the ARCS as a definite plus. Others may find it a little weird, esp at first.

Steve

Hi Everyone
Wow! It is great to see/read/hear that there are so many Shahinianites about as all of my friends look blankly at me when I tell them what speakers I have. Mind you some of them look quizzically at me at the mention of Naim as well!

First of all my apologies on not being more specific on my 'problem' (really it is probably more upgraditis than a major problem). On some pieces of music the bass is too overpowering and that is what I would like to tame - tighten it up, have bass coming on and going off more sharply.

Dev B
Many thanks for your suggestion about Soundbases reducing boom and overhang. Have you tried this or do you have Soundbases under something else?

Noel
I agree that rotating them, or toeing them in changes the reflections off back and side walls and can change the sound quite dramatically. I also have read a lot that Shahinians cannot really be tuned in the normal way of 'speakers as they are designed somewhat differently.

Alan Ball
Thank you very much for your feedback on the things that you have experienced. This is very useful and will save me a lot of time. I would love to hear how you get on with SBL bases under Arcs.

ARC
Your experience is very interesting. I too have been messing about with my room and have a living room (where listening takes place) with a door into the dining room. With the door shut (smallish living room) the room definitely has an annoying resonant frequency which is very apparent. This can be translated into boomy bass with a lot of overhang. However, I, like you, now have the doors to the dining room permanently open and the sound improvement is tremendous. I really love it now but just a little tighter bass would be great. I had a friend round listening to some stuff the other night and he said that those were the best speakers that I have ever had - and I have had quite a lot over the past few years.

Andy B
Your experience of soundbases is exactly what I am looking for. Many thanks for your feedback - it sounds like I have going to have to try some soundbases.

Ebirah
I know what you are saying - sometimes the road to Nirvana takes you a long way to bring you back to where you started from - but the journey can be interesting/fun etc - if that is not too philosophical! I shall try some soundbases when I can get them and will report back.

The bottom line is that I really do love the Arcs. They do not image precisely like other more traditional 'speakers do but I love the big soundstage that they produce. They also have a great spread of frequency and really let the music out. I have actually had Obelisks before and prefer the Arcs in my smallish living room - the Obs might have been better suited to a larger room.

Finally thanks to everyone who has contributed. I shall get round to trying some Soundbases and will report back.

I have used soundbsases under my Arcs for a while now with good results (on suspended wood floor no carpets)....

only problem is I havent the patience to keep tuning them and its a pain if you ever want to move them around a bit...

Raphael... what are Obelisks like in comparison to Arcs?

Hi Xigris
Thank you for your helpful posting. I shall have to get hold of a pair of Mana soundbases and try them.
Regarding Obelisks, they are great 'speakers but did not work so well in my room. First of all the woofer in the Obs is on the front flat forward-facing surface which meant that, in my case, it would fire straight into the side of a sofa (not really what the manufacturers intend). The Arcs have all their drives much higher up so this is no longer a problem.
Also I believe that the Obs need more driving. I currently drive my Arcs with a 102/180 and they sound great. However, at the time, I had an old 250 driving the Obs and it was struggling. Finally, my room does have a very audible resonant frequency. This was very much more pronounced with the Obs.
That said and done, I would have Obs again if I had a much bigger living room and could afford to upgrade my current amplification.
I hope that this is of some help.
Regards
Raphael

i too have arcs mine are on three metal cones onto marble slab on the carpet on suspended floor. bass now is tighter faster and less boom. has anyone tried this as i have- a small blob of blutack on centre of passive unit. seems to also tame bass bloom and alter mid range balance ?

msn,

What sort of cones are you using and how do you place your speakers on them. Are they tall enough for the Arcs to sit on the underneath carcass near the feet or do they go on the speaker rim? How big is you blob of blutak?

Brendan

Hi Raphael/Brendan,

The wall behind the speakers is actually made of wood and glass as its a set of double doors (perhaps I should've mentioned that to begin with!), so maybe that's how I'm able to get away with the short distance.
Due to the limitations in my room I haven't been able to experiment with placing the speakers in front of any brickwork, but they are 2m apart and I sit 3m away. I'd prefer them further apart but I don't have much choice.
If I move the speakers out, the bass only quietenes, it doesn't necessarily tighten and by adding the soundbases it kept the sound nice and lively.
The only place in the room I notice any deterioration is on the back wall, behind the sitting position toward the corners.

Andy.

quote:

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Originally posted by ARC:
msn,

What sort of cones are you using and how do you place your speakers on them. Are they tall enough for the Arcs to sit on the underneath carcass near the feet or do they go on the speaker rim? How big is you blob of blutak?

Brendan

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dont remember cone make but they are black with rippled sides and steel tip.i have three cones,point down two at front corner one at back middle- speaker just on top with small bit of two sided tape. blutack size is about size of a large pea.

Hi Everyone
I have succumbed and found myself a pair of Mana Soundbase 2s. I had to get 2s as this seemed to the minimum size for the Shahinian Arcs.
As I have only had these in situe for a couple of days, I cannot really comment on their true performance yet but would rather just give initial impressions for now.
Initial impressions are .......very good actually. Two things spring to mind. First of all bass, which the Arcs produce very well has improved. It seems to start quicker and falls off quicker and is therefore much better defined - I guess that the Soundbases have helped to remove any bass overhang that there might have been. Secondly, highs and mids seem to be a lot more dynamic - much quicker and sharper in impact which is something that I like (typical Naim user?).
A few additional points though.
Mana can be a bit of a pain to set up. I was actually very lucky and have a friend who knows Mana really well and who came round and set up the soundbases for me - it took him the best part of an hour to set up the two Soundbases and he really knows what he is doing and has done a lot in his time - I should not name (Naim!) him but thank you very much - you know who you are. Therefore, if you plan to try Soundbases, be prepared to learn how to set up Mana. I did have a go myself at first but did not like what heard and this was traced to poor set up! What else does this mean? - it does mean that I might be interested in trying a Mana equipment support but I currently have Hutter which goes together really well, is comparatively easy to set up and works well, so I shall probably stick with Hutter.

Also a question for Xigris,
You mentioned that you already have Arcs on Mana Soundbases - do you also use Soundbase 2s and do you have anything between the Arcs and the Soundbase as the speaker can slip quite easily on the Soundbase surface.

I shall have a good listening session one evening soon and will give a much better review with music examples as there is so much interest in this area.
In conclusion - initial impressions are very good and the Mana Soundbases are good value for money.

Regards
Raphael

Hi Raphael

No idea what my soundbases are without finding the box...my dealer uses them with his and ordered me a pair.

I dont have anything between them but for a blob of blutak on the leg of one arc to stop it wobbling.

I agree with the set-up problem, mine are still not right but I know if I start trying to redo them I'll be there for hours ....

Cheers

Any chance of a picture of Arcs on soundbases from you chaps?

Brendan

Hi ARC
First of all, sorry for not replying to you sooner, things have been rather hectic. Anyway, I believe that the only way to put pictures up here is by inputting a URL which I do not have time to set up. So please email me directly if you want a couple of pictures.
Otherwise, the Mana Soundbases are working well with my Arcs.
Best regards
Raphael

Raphael,

I'm very interested in pictures. Cant see your e-mail address.

Cheers,
Hermann (560 FEP's)

Hi there
Sorry, my email address is
raphael@somethingabstract.co.uk
Cheers
Raphael