LP12 Ultimate Spec Advice
Posted by: Peter Holmes on 22 October 2002
My system comprises LP12/CDX/52/Supercap/250/Epos 22. My main source is Vinyl so will leave XPS upgrade until Analogue source is operating at Max.
I am ordering a new LP12 with Lingo in Maple and was wondering what members have found to be the ultimate spec in terms of Arm, Cartridge and Phono stage. On the arm front I am currently considering Ekos or Origin Live Silver; for cartridge Arkiv2 or Lyra Helikon and for Phono either Linn Linto or Tom Evans Microgroove Plus or even a Tom Evans Groove. The difficulty is finding a dealer in the UK who will demonstrate these various permutations which nowadays is impossible. I need some advice from those out there who have been down this road. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
I am ordering a new LP12 with Lingo in Maple and was wondering what members have found to be the ultimate spec in terms of Arm, Cartridge and Phono stage. On the arm front I am currently considering Ekos or Origin Live Silver; for cartridge Arkiv2 or Lyra Helikon and for Phono either Linn Linto or Tom Evans Microgroove Plus or even a Tom Evans Groove. The difficulty is finding a dealer in the UK who will demonstrate these various permutations which nowadays is impossible. I need some advice from those out there who have been down this road. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Paul B
Peter:
I am using an LP12 with Ekos, Arkiv 2 and Linto into a 52 and the combination works very well IMO.
However, having heard an alternative I would strongly recommend that you also listen to an Aro with Arkiv 2 (or Lyrita Helicon, Dynavector Te Kaitora). The presentation of the Aro is very different from the Ekos but certainly not inferior.
Paul
I am using an LP12 with Ekos, Arkiv 2 and Linto into a 52 and the combination works very well IMO.
However, having heard an alternative I would strongly recommend that you also listen to an Aro with Arkiv 2 (or Lyrita Helicon, Dynavector Te Kaitora). The presentation of the Aro is very different from the Ekos but certainly not inferior.
Paul
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Keith Mattox
The latest issue of HiFi+ asked the same question of a few dealers and Russ Andrews; they equipped three LP12s: one as a full-on Linn spec, one with the Aro and Armageddon, and the other heavily modified by Russ. I can't remember what the cartridges were and I don't have the magazine in front of me.
As you can imagine, they deemed all of the versions as very good, but different, with no one standing out as a definitive version. Surprise surprise.
Check it out for yourself - it's the latest issue.
Cheers
Keith.
As you can imagine, they deemed all of the versions as very good, but different, with no one standing out as a definitive version. Surprise surprise.
Check it out for yourself - it's the latest issue.
Cheers
Keith.
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Jens
Peter,
I have sort of mixed the Naim/Linn approach on my LP12. I have a Lingo, Ittok LVIII V2 (pretty similar to the Ekos by most accounts), MC Rohmann and Prefix. Some people seem to suggest that you need to go one way or the other (ie Naim or Linn), but I can attest that the Prefix works very well in this context, and was certainly an upgrade. So I'd second James' suggestion that you add the Prefix to your considerations, especially since you can power it directly from the 52.
Cheers, Jens
I have sort of mixed the Naim/Linn approach on my LP12. I have a Lingo, Ittok LVIII V2 (pretty similar to the Ekos by most accounts), MC Rohmann and Prefix. Some people seem to suggest that you need to go one way or the other (ie Naim or Linn), but I can attest that the Prefix works very well in this context, and was certainly an upgrade. So I'd second James' suggestion that you add the Prefix to your considerations, especially since you can power it directly from the 52.
Cheers, Jens
Posted on: 22 October 2002 by Steve B
Why are you ordering a new LP12 if you've already got one? And, according to your profile, a fully kitted one at that?
It's just that, as much as I love this deck, at current new prices I think I'd be looking for alternatives - surely there must be something out there better by now.
Steve B
It's just that, as much as I love this deck, at current new prices I think I'd be looking for alternatives - surely there must be something out there better by now.
Steve B
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by kan man
Hi Peter
I'm with Paul B on this one in that you owe it to yourself to check out a fully naimed LP12 before you part with any cash. I can't predict whether you would prefer it to a full blown Linn one or not but you really should give yourself the chance to rule it in or out.
Maybe I'm blessed with good local dealers but I have been able to do comparative dems of Ekos/ARO, 17D2/Troika and Lingo/Armageddon over the last few years. For what it's worth, if I could only have one it would probably be Armageddon.
Regards
Steve
I'm with Paul B on this one in that you owe it to yourself to check out a fully naimed LP12 before you part with any cash. I can't predict whether you would prefer it to a full blown Linn one or not but you really should give yourself the chance to rule it in or out.
Maybe I'm blessed with good local dealers but I have been able to do comparative dems of Ekos/ARO, 17D2/Troika and Lingo/Armageddon over the last few years. For what it's worth, if I could only have one it would probably be Armageddon.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Frank Abela
In my view, the best LP12 combination I have experience of is as follows:
Naim Armageddon - brings more fluidity than the Lingo. Loses 45rpm.
Naim ARO arm - again more fluid with better rhythm than the EKOS. Doesn't have the absolute slam and power of the EKOS.
Dynavector XV-1S cartridge, although the Te Kaitora is still a very good combination indeed (and I've heard good stories about the Koetsu Red K Signature).
Tom Evans Groove phono stage - it times better, has better bandwidth and lower noise floor with more gain than any other phono stage I've heard (and I've heard a few). Needs to be kept away from power supplies or it will pick up their hum.
Things to note: ARO/ArkivII really doesn't seem to work very well as a combination - no idea why, but it really sounds scratchy and bright. The ArkivII works much better in an Ekos arm.
The Lingo is a good alternative to the Armageddon if you really want 45rpm. It doesn't have the same sense of ease and flow of the Armageddon but it isn't bad. Works well with the ARO arm on the deck so that would be a good combination too if you prefer the more authoritative feel of the Lingo.
It's been a long time since I heard a Dynavector in an EKOS, so I'm not sure what that combination would do.
Peter, you already have a pretty top-line front end. Perhaps you should simply check out the phono stage situation. That's the only obvious weakness in the setup apart from the CD player which should be overshadowed by the performance of the record deck anyway. If it's not, then either the cartridge has had it or the deck needs a service. A CDX should not hold a candle to an LP12 of your spec.
That said, the difference made by a high quality phono stage like the Groove is just remarkable. One of the best buys of my life!
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Naim Armageddon - brings more fluidity than the Lingo. Loses 45rpm.
Naim ARO arm - again more fluid with better rhythm than the EKOS. Doesn't have the absolute slam and power of the EKOS.
Dynavector XV-1S cartridge, although the Te Kaitora is still a very good combination indeed (and I've heard good stories about the Koetsu Red K Signature).
Tom Evans Groove phono stage - it times better, has better bandwidth and lower noise floor with more gain than any other phono stage I've heard (and I've heard a few). Needs to be kept away from power supplies or it will pick up their hum.
Things to note: ARO/ArkivII really doesn't seem to work very well as a combination - no idea why, but it really sounds scratchy and bright. The ArkivII works much better in an Ekos arm.
The Lingo is a good alternative to the Armageddon if you really want 45rpm. It doesn't have the same sense of ease and flow of the Armageddon but it isn't bad. Works well with the ARO arm on the deck so that would be a good combination too if you prefer the more authoritative feel of the Lingo.
It's been a long time since I heard a Dynavector in an EKOS, so I'm not sure what that combination would do.
Peter, you already have a pretty top-line front end. Perhaps you should simply check out the phono stage situation. That's the only obvious weakness in the setup apart from the CD player which should be overshadowed by the performance of the record deck anyway. If it's not, then either the cartridge has had it or the deck needs a service. A CDX should not hold a candle to an LP12 of your spec.
That said, the difference made by a high quality phono stage like the Groove is just remarkable. One of the best buys of my life!
Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by kan man
Hi Jean-Christophe
The Troika in question was a full Linn rebuild (and run in) v a newly run in 17D2. Both were demmed with LP12/Valhalla/ARO/82/SC/250/Kan1's at home.
The Troika was a fantastic cartridge with a full, lush, large yet delicate and detailed sound. It excelled with acoustic and lighter pop/rock etc. and conveyed emotion very well. With harder more rhythm dependant material I felt there was something missing which is why a 17D2 was tried.
The 17D2 is subjectively less impressive and full sounding but it was quickly obvious that what I thought was missing from the Troika was speed. The Dynavector is much faster and this enabled it to convey the rhythm and excitement of up tempo and hard rock material far more effectively.
It is difficult to conclude that one is better than the other, they both have strengths and weaknesses. Overall, I feel that the 17D2 is more accurate in its presentation and the Troika a bit more detailed. Your preference is likely to be driven partly by your choice of music. I chose the 17D2 and suspect that most long term satisfied Kan users would do the same unless they were not keen on rock music. If your thing was solo acoustic guitar or simple slow tempo stuff it might be a different story.
Regards
Steve
The Troika in question was a full Linn rebuild (and run in) v a newly run in 17D2. Both were demmed with LP12/Valhalla/ARO/82/SC/250/Kan1's at home.
The Troika was a fantastic cartridge with a full, lush, large yet delicate and detailed sound. It excelled with acoustic and lighter pop/rock etc. and conveyed emotion very well. With harder more rhythm dependant material I felt there was something missing which is why a 17D2 was tried.
The 17D2 is subjectively less impressive and full sounding but it was quickly obvious that what I thought was missing from the Troika was speed. The Dynavector is much faster and this enabled it to convey the rhythm and excitement of up tempo and hard rock material far more effectively.
It is difficult to conclude that one is better than the other, they both have strengths and weaknesses. Overall, I feel that the 17D2 is more accurate in its presentation and the Troika a bit more detailed. Your preference is likely to be driven partly by your choice of music. I chose the 17D2 and suspect that most long term satisfied Kan users would do the same unless they were not keen on rock music. If your thing was solo acoustic guitar or simple slow tempo stuff it might be a different story.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Dave J
Hi Peter,
You've got the same spec LP12 as me and presumably you got there by comparing it to whatever else was worth hearing at the time. If that is the case, and assuming you heard an Armageddon/Aro equipped LP12 on the way, you presumably, like me, preferred the Ekos/Lingo route (although, to be fair, at the time I could have happily lived with either).
Recently, I upgraded my Lingo to a Lingo 2 and found the improvement hugely worthwhile, combining much of the allure of the Armageddon with the control, detail and slam of the original Lingo and adding in greater access to the performance.
Having said that, I notice that everyone seems to be jumping on the power supply bandwagon, which is not a question you've asked. So, as far as arms that go best with the Lingo, I'd suggest the Ekos as being preferable to an Aro.
On the cartridge front, the Arkiv 2 is excellent, as is the Te Kaitora (but I've not heard one on an Ekos)- is anyone doing cartridge comparisons out there?
I've not yet heard The Groove, but it's certainly on the 'must hear' list. Nevertheless, when I was at my dealers last week comparing Hutter with Fraim, I noticed a Microgroove in place. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to audition it but the chap who services my LP12 and whose opinion I trust, tells me that it does hi-fi very well but looses the musical plot somewhat. On the other hand the Linto is certainly good but I didn't find it had the same monumental impact as the Lingo. Hmmm? More listening needed.
Dave
You've got the same spec LP12 as me and presumably you got there by comparing it to whatever else was worth hearing at the time. If that is the case, and assuming you heard an Armageddon/Aro equipped LP12 on the way, you presumably, like me, preferred the Ekos/Lingo route (although, to be fair, at the time I could have happily lived with either).
Recently, I upgraded my Lingo to a Lingo 2 and found the improvement hugely worthwhile, combining much of the allure of the Armageddon with the control, detail and slam of the original Lingo and adding in greater access to the performance.
Having said that, I notice that everyone seems to be jumping on the power supply bandwagon, which is not a question you've asked. So, as far as arms that go best with the Lingo, I'd suggest the Ekos as being preferable to an Aro.
On the cartridge front, the Arkiv 2 is excellent, as is the Te Kaitora (but I've not heard one on an Ekos)- is anyone doing cartridge comparisons out there?
I've not yet heard The Groove, but it's certainly on the 'must hear' list. Nevertheless, when I was at my dealers last week comparing Hutter with Fraim, I noticed a Microgroove in place. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to audition it but the chap who services my LP12 and whose opinion I trust, tells me that it does hi-fi very well but looses the musical plot somewhat. On the other hand the Linto is certainly good but I didn't find it had the same monumental impact as the Lingo. Hmmm? More listening needed.
Dave
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Dave J
The equipment was a bit of an unusual combination as the dealer is running down their old Naim stock. Consequently it was CDS2/ XPS/102/Supercap/180. Nevertheless, the Fraim was vastly superior in all respects.
Dave
Dave
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Trevor Bennett
You could also try the Origin Live DC motor and power supply,alot cheaper than the Lingo and Armagedon,and the Dynavector XX-2
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by kan man
Quote:
On the other hand the Linto is certainly good but I didn't find it had the same monumental impact as the Lingo
I found this to be true re Armageddon/Prefix. The Armageddon is a substantial and fundamental improvement. Prefix/Hicap is a small improvement and Prefix/52 is a subtle improvement.
Regards
Steve
On the other hand the Linto is certainly good but I didn't find it had the same monumental impact as the Lingo
I found this to be true re Armageddon/Prefix. The Armageddon is a substantial and fundamental improvement. Prefix/Hicap is a small improvement and Prefix/52 is a subtle improvement.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Tony Smith
Dave J
Re: "On the cartridge front, the Arkiv 2 is excellent, as is the Te Kaitora (but I've not heard one on an Ekos)- is anyone doing cartridge comparisons out there?"
I know it's not quite in the same ball park as the above cartridges but I bought a DV 10x4 yesterday for a newly acquired LP12/Valhall/Ittok.
I needed to replace a knackered K9 and only had £250 to play with. After reading plenty of advice on here and pink fish I narrowed it down to either the DV or an Linn Adikt (the 20xL was just a bit too much).
The dealer was incredibly helpful and friendly and took into account the rest of my system - CDX/72/Hi/90/Mission 781(!) - and the possibility of me splurging on an aro next year (when the current hi-fi fuss has died down at home).
The dealer said their initial thoughts on the Adikt hadn't been great but it had gradually won them over and they had become really impressed with it. He said the DV would go well in the Ittok and probably be a better match for the aro if, and when, I switch. My mouth was watering at the prospect of hearing the difference between them.
I asked if there was any chance of a demo and he said they don't demo cartridges anymore. He said they used to have five LP12s set up in different configurations but they just can't do it now.
He had been genuinely helpful - as all dealers should be - and I didn't have the time or energy to go to anywhere else so I just went for the dynavector at £225.
I admit I could have phoned every dealer within a 50-mile radius but I have had good service from these guys and felt they deserved my cash.
But I wonder just how many dealers would demo cartridges. I can see from their point of view it's not cost-efficient to unwrap a selection of expensive diamonds for comparison.
Sorry to ramble on but I might as well let you know what I thought of my new kit.
After 10mins of trying my new DV in the shop I took the deck home and spun a few discs.
My first impressions were that it was a bit too polite. There was no real slam, the bass was insipid and the treble hissed a bit. Timing seemed okay but I had that horrible gut feeling that I'd bought the wrong cart.
After about an hour of pop and rock I tried a different tack with a decent recording of Tosca and suddenly the whole system was as magical as I had heard it. I was riveted to my seat and completely lost in the music.
I had time for a couple more tracks and went back to the pop which sounded better but not quite there.
This morning I gave it another go and after another couple of hours of various styles it seemed to wake up half way through REM's Out of Time. The bass was authoritative, it started to rock, there was more detail and the treble had calmed down.
It really started singing - Gomez, Robert Plant, Rolling Stones and The Beatles were all sounding great.
It can only get better and I can't wait to get home again.
I haven't touched the CDX since the LP12 entered the house but that should make for an interesting shootout over the weekend.
I wonder what that Adikt would have been like . . .
Cheers
Tony
PS I know the 90 and Missions need replacing but the magic of vinyl has really got me again.
Re: "On the cartridge front, the Arkiv 2 is excellent, as is the Te Kaitora (but I've not heard one on an Ekos)- is anyone doing cartridge comparisons out there?"
I know it's not quite in the same ball park as the above cartridges but I bought a DV 10x4 yesterday for a newly acquired LP12/Valhall/Ittok.
I needed to replace a knackered K9 and only had £250 to play with. After reading plenty of advice on here and pink fish I narrowed it down to either the DV or an Linn Adikt (the 20xL was just a bit too much).
The dealer was incredibly helpful and friendly and took into account the rest of my system - CDX/72/Hi/90/Mission 781(!) - and the possibility of me splurging on an aro next year (when the current hi-fi fuss has died down at home).
The dealer said their initial thoughts on the Adikt hadn't been great but it had gradually won them over and they had become really impressed with it. He said the DV would go well in the Ittok and probably be a better match for the aro if, and when, I switch. My mouth was watering at the prospect of hearing the difference between them.
I asked if there was any chance of a demo and he said they don't demo cartridges anymore. He said they used to have five LP12s set up in different configurations but they just can't do it now.
He had been genuinely helpful - as all dealers should be - and I didn't have the time or energy to go to anywhere else so I just went for the dynavector at £225.
I admit I could have phoned every dealer within a 50-mile radius but I have had good service from these guys and felt they deserved my cash.
But I wonder just how many dealers would demo cartridges. I can see from their point of view it's not cost-efficient to unwrap a selection of expensive diamonds for comparison.
Sorry to ramble on but I might as well let you know what I thought of my new kit.
After 10mins of trying my new DV in the shop I took the deck home and spun a few discs.
My first impressions were that it was a bit too polite. There was no real slam, the bass was insipid and the treble hissed a bit. Timing seemed okay but I had that horrible gut feeling that I'd bought the wrong cart.
After about an hour of pop and rock I tried a different tack with a decent recording of Tosca and suddenly the whole system was as magical as I had heard it. I was riveted to my seat and completely lost in the music.
I had time for a couple more tracks and went back to the pop which sounded better but not quite there.
This morning I gave it another go and after another couple of hours of various styles it seemed to wake up half way through REM's Out of Time. The bass was authoritative, it started to rock, there was more detail and the treble had calmed down.
It really started singing - Gomez, Robert Plant, Rolling Stones and The Beatles were all sounding great.
It can only get better and I can't wait to get home again.
I haven't touched the CDX since the LP12 entered the house but that should make for an interesting shootout over the weekend.
I wonder what that Adikt would have been like . . .
Cheers
Tony
PS I know the 90 and Missions need replacing but the magic of vinyl has really got me again.
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Peter Holmes
Hi Paul B
Many thanks for your reply.
With regard to the Linto do you connect from the Linto into the BNC adapters on the 52 or do you go in through one of the Din inputs.
Also do you leave the phono boards in which in my case are K Boards or replace with the through boards?
Did you originally have the Arkiv1 before getting the Arkiv2 and if so was there a significant improvement?
Peter
Many thanks for your reply.
With regard to the Linto do you connect from the Linto into the BNC adapters on the 52 or do you go in through one of the Din inputs.
Also do you leave the phono boards in which in my case are K Boards or replace with the through boards?
Did you originally have the Arkiv1 before getting the Arkiv2 and if so was there a significant improvement?
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Peter Holmes
Hi Keith
Thanks for your reply.
Yes I have seen this article but as you say it was somewhat inconclusive.
Peter
Thanks for your reply.
Yes I have seen this article but as you say it was somewhat inconclusive.
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Peter Holmes
Paul & kan man
There is endless discussion on the forum about the pros and cons of these two combinations. Are you able to summarise the difference between them?
Does anyone know a dealer who has both set-ups in the London area where I could hear for myself.
Peter
There is endless discussion on the forum about the pros and cons of these two combinations. Are you able to summarise the difference between them?
Does anyone know a dealer who has both set-ups in the London area where I could hear for myself.
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Peter Holmes
Frank
Thank you for your reply.
Of all the improvements I have read about this is the most interesting but it is also an expensive road at £1,800 but one that I would pursue if I could be sure of the benefit. Were you able to hear a demo before purchase? Can you clarify what you mean by not siting near power supplies - are you referring to mains supplies or Naim/Lingo/Armageddon power supplies?
When inputing into the 52 from The Groove is that into the BNC adapters or by Din into one of the other inputs. Should the 52 boards be removed?
If you had to measure improvement by adding The Groove in terms of a % what would you put it at?
Peter
Thank you for your reply.
Of all the improvements I have read about this is the most interesting but it is also an expensive road at £1,800 but one that I would pursue if I could be sure of the benefit. Were you able to hear a demo before purchase? Can you clarify what you mean by not siting near power supplies - are you referring to mains supplies or Naim/Lingo/Armageddon power supplies?
When inputing into the 52 from The Groove is that into the BNC adapters or by Din into one of the other inputs. Should the 52 boards be removed?
If you had to measure improvement by adding The Groove in terms of a % what would you put it at?
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Paul B
Peter:
I connect the Linto to a DIN socket (Tuner) on my 52.
Yes and yes. The Arkiv 2 is IMO MUCH better than original. No hesitation here. I have used both through my Linto.
I have not removed the K boards and am not sure if it would make any difference as it does apparently when using the powered input for the Prefix.
Paul
quote:
With regard to the Linto do you connect from the Linto into the BNC adapters on the 52 or do you go in through one of the Din inputs.
I connect the Linto to a DIN socket (Tuner) on my 52.
quote:
Did you originally have the Arkiv1 before getting the Arkiv2 and if so was there a significant improvement?
Yes and yes. The Arkiv 2 is IMO MUCH better than original. No hesitation here. I have used both through my Linto.
quote:
Also do you leave the phono boards in which in my case are K Boards or replace with the through boards?
I have not removed the K boards and am not sure if it would make any difference as it does apparently when using the powered input for the Prefix.
Paul
Posted on: 23 October 2002 by Paul B
Peter:
Unless things have changed since my last visit to London, this is not easy. Graham's did have an LP12/Ekos/Lingo on demo but not the Aro/Armageddon.
Infidelity (?) in Hampton Wick ( ? - I may have got the names wrong) did at one time as I contacted them for a demo but got tied up and had to cancel.
I finally heard the two LP12s in New York. They are different (perhaps neither better than the other as the strengths are in different places) and I believe Frank has described them very accurately above (I might differ on his opinion of the Aro/Arkiv2 though).
Personally, I could live with either (and would like both) but I must have 45rpm so the Lingo was my original choice. Haven't tried Lingo 2 yet. Will eventually.
Paul
quote:
Does anyone know a dealer who has both set-ups in the London area where I could hear for myself.
Unless things have changed since my last visit to London, this is not easy. Graham's did have an LP12/Ekos/Lingo on demo but not the Aro/Armageddon.
Infidelity (?) in Hampton Wick ( ? - I may have got the names wrong) did at one time as I contacted them for a demo but got tied up and had to cancel.
I finally heard the two LP12s in New York. They are different (perhaps neither better than the other as the strengths are in different places) and I believe Frank has described them very accurately above (I might differ on his opinion of the Aro/Arkiv2 though).
Personally, I could live with either (and would like both) but I must have 45rpm so the Lingo was my original choice. Haven't tried Lingo 2 yet. Will eventually.
Paul
Posted on: 24 October 2002 by kan man
Quote:
There is endless discussion on the forum about the pros and cons of these two combinations. Are you able to summarise the difference between them?
Yes - in a very simplistic way with sweeping statements and much inaccuracy (I'm not much good at blathering on about hifi)
The Ekos is traditionally analogue sounding. By this I mean 'warm' sounding with an extended (and to my ears, over emphasised) bass. It has a similar (not so analogue sounding)extension at the other end. The midrange (i.e. most of the music) sounds shut in by comparison. This is the sort of thing I've heard on PT decks with SME arms - analogue on steroids.
The ARO is tonally very different ie flat (or rolled off at each end depending on your perspective) like CD but far more expressive and delicate.
Both arms retrieve plenty of detail, boogie and fun. The differences in the way they portray it makes it difficult to say which gets more out of the groove but for me, the ARO is much closer to reality.
If you still use a TT because you like the 'analogue' sound and you want to make damm sure your system sounds like it has a record player the Ekos is probably for you. If you think CD has a more accurate tonal balance (but still sounds crap) the ARO is perhaps for you. Or maybe not. In any case, I wouldn't buy one without hearing the other.
Regards
Steve
There is endless discussion on the forum about the pros and cons of these two combinations. Are you able to summarise the difference between them?
Yes - in a very simplistic way with sweeping statements and much inaccuracy (I'm not much good at blathering on about hifi)
The Ekos is traditionally analogue sounding. By this I mean 'warm' sounding with an extended (and to my ears, over emphasised) bass. It has a similar (not so analogue sounding)extension at the other end. The midrange (i.e. most of the music) sounds shut in by comparison. This is the sort of thing I've heard on PT decks with SME arms - analogue on steroids.
The ARO is tonally very different ie flat (or rolled off at each end depending on your perspective) like CD but far more expressive and delicate.
Both arms retrieve plenty of detail, boogie and fun. The differences in the way they portray it makes it difficult to say which gets more out of the groove but for me, the ARO is much closer to reality.
If you still use a TT because you like the 'analogue' sound and you want to make damm sure your system sounds like it has a record player the Ekos is probably for you. If you think CD has a more accurate tonal balance (but still sounds crap) the ARO is perhaps for you. Or maybe not. In any case, I wouldn't buy one without hearing the other.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 24 October 2002 by Timbo
Having had my new LP12/geddon/prefix-s/ARO/XX2 for a couple of weeks now on a Mana wall shelf I can now reveal that it sounds stunning.
Fellow forum members advice has been followed and I thank them very much as the setup was very much a labour of love. The dealer did the initial setup and over the past two weeks I've let things settle in and made minor adjustments by ear, which I thought would be difficult. However when you get it right it is so obvious!! I even got my mother-in-law in to listen as she is an accomplished violin player and has perfect pitch - she listened for a while and said something was not quite right. So I rechecked things by sight - nothing obvious. Then rechecked the tracking force which was too light - I thought I'd set up my cartridge to track at 2 grams but stupidly used the 20 mark on the supplied ortofon stylus gauge, when I got it right the difference was enormous.
So Mother-in-laws do have their uses!!
Tim
Fellow forum members advice has been followed and I thank them very much as the setup was very much a labour of love. The dealer did the initial setup and over the past two weeks I've let things settle in and made minor adjustments by ear, which I thought would be difficult. However when you get it right it is so obvious!! I even got my mother-in-law in to listen as she is an accomplished violin player and has perfect pitch - she listened for a while and said something was not quite right. So I rechecked things by sight - nothing obvious. Then rechecked the tracking force which was too light - I thought I'd set up my cartridge to track at 2 grams but stupidly used the 20 mark on the supplied ortofon stylus gauge, when I got it right the difference was enormous.
So Mother-in-laws do have their uses!!
Tim
Posted on: 25 October 2002 by Peter Holmes
Mark v
Thank you for your reply
My current preference inclination is:
LP12(Maple)/Ekos2/ArkivB/Lingo my only hesitation now is Phono stage I don't want the Naim Prefix/Stageline route so choices are Microgroove+/Groove/Linto.
Mark did you ever compare your Microgroove+ with the Linto? Are you saying that the difference between the M+ and the Groove is pretty marginal and not worth the £1,100 difference?
Peter
Thank you for your reply
My current preference inclination is:
LP12(Maple)/Ekos2/ArkivB/Lingo my only hesitation now is Phono stage I don't want the Naim Prefix/Stageline route so choices are Microgroove+/Groove/Linto.
Mark did you ever compare your Microgroove+ with the Linto? Are you saying that the difference between the M+ and the Groove is pretty marginal and not worth the £1,100 difference?
Peter
Posted on: 25 October 2002 by JohanR
Quote:
"I can personally attest that a fully Naim'd LP12 makes superb music that is in a totally different league to that made by the venerable CDS-II."
I can personally attest that a fully Linned LP12 (LP12/Cirkus/Lingo/Ekos/Arkiv B) makes superb music that sounds more or less the same as that that made by the venerable CDS-II.
I have the view that when the hardware gets good enough the differences between LP and CD lies in the implemantation, not in the system. Both satisfies my musical needs and I can concentrate on the musical experience without constantly thinking "Ah, this is CD" or "Yes, vinyl sounds like this". Equaly happy!
JohanR
"I can personally attest that a fully Naim'd LP12 makes superb music that is in a totally different league to that made by the venerable CDS-II."
I can personally attest that a fully Linned LP12 (LP12/Cirkus/Lingo/Ekos/Arkiv B) makes superb music that sounds more or less the same as that that made by the venerable CDS-II.
I have the view that when the hardware gets good enough the differences between LP and CD lies in the implemantation, not in the system. Both satisfies my musical needs and I can concentrate on the musical experience without constantly thinking "Ah, this is CD" or "Yes, vinyl sounds like this". Equaly happy!
JohanR
Posted on: 25 October 2002 by mark dunsford
Recently aquired a Linto secondhand to add to my Kairn/ 250/ Isobariks combo fed from LP12/ Ittok/ Troika. I found the Linto to be probably the most significant upgrade I have ever made. Well worth the money and very pleasantly suprised: more detail, more texture and more presence especially in the vocal region.
Posted on: 25 October 2002 by Energy
Hi Peter,
Check out the Dynavector DV P-100 phono stage
http://www.dynavector.com/dvamp%20phonoamps.htm I replaced a linto with one its the best upgrade I have made to my kit.
Check out the Dynavector DV P-100 phono stage
http://www.dynavector.com/dvamp%20phonoamps.htm I replaced a linto with one its the best upgrade I have made to my kit.
Posted on: 25 October 2002 by Mark Dunn
Hi Energy (ouch!)
Please tell more of your DV phono stage. I use an XV-1 and would appreciate the input.
What's the rest of your system btw?
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn
Please tell more of your DV phono stage. I use an XV-1 and would appreciate the input.
What's the rest of your system btw?
Best Regards,
Mark Dunn