Help -NBL positioning

Are you living with your speakers or are they living with you?

Maybe the answer is smaller speakers/bigger LP collection

quote:

---

Are you living with your speakers or are they living with you?

---

Nice one Redeye!

I think you will approve of the fact that moving the LPs out of the listening room is not an option. The NBLs are not so big and funnily enough I got them because they're "easy" speakers to live with.

"Ikea Bondes full of records..."

O-my-GAWD!!!

...me too!!!

And CDs, DVDs, videotapes, and a teapot collection.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Greg

We have 42 teapots, how many do you have.

Ours are mainly novelty or early 20th century.

Regards

Mick

Mick -

I don't know the count - I would guess 20ish. We had an Alice-in-Wonderland themed wedding (I was the Mad Hatter) and my wife likes funky teapots. Some were wedding gifts, others we just found in odd shops. I doubt any of them are collectable.

- Greg The-Mad-Hatter B

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

Greg

I have a friend just outside of Swindon who claims to have the largest collection in the UK,
He has 400 +.

They are all sorts and despite him having a house which is enormous, it seems to be taken over by the things.

Regards

Mick

I run my NBL's 35cm from each side wall and about 180 cms apart... they work very well in this position... but remember no two rooms are ever these same ...what works for me may be a disaster for you...the only way is to try them and listen.

Thanks Michael and teapots in place of some of the records may not be such a bad idea - trouble is I have lots of records but only 1 teapot (in the shape of an AGA).

I got it as a gift - it came from here

I suspect that Michael's NBLs would occaisionally sound a little cleaner in the bass if the room was a little wider, and allowed them to be a bit further from the corners. It doesn't get in the way, but the other (identical) NBL system that I've heard where they were six feet from the corners of a square room do sound better.

This did get better when the 500 replaced the 135s.

One thing - I'm not convinced that having records in the corner is quite the same as putting them into the corner of two walls. I have a friend with DBLs and he tried putting packed book shelves behind his speakers to bring them forward of a large fireplace. The books had zero effect, and he ended up stacking concrete blocks behind the speakers in order to have any effect.

If you have a choice, I would think that having the records facing the NBLs would have less effect than if they are facing into the room and the (?wooden?) sides of the Bondes facing the speakers. This is just an intuition, though...

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Thanks Martin, I was thinking and hoping the same thing. Anyway, tonight I did the deed but then, um, got too engrossed in the music I was playing to notice what the difference was

Must check later...

The NBL's are designed to work very close to a back wall between 5 and 12 inches is recommended. The closer to wall the higher is the bass re-inforcement.

I currently have NBL's either side of a fireplace (only practical way to get them in really) and on one side, is a large, backless cabinet housing the electronics. (Which incidentally sit on wall mounted shelves before you all scream!)


I have no problem with the sound at all - maybe a little surprising considering the side firing drivers.
The distance from the back wall is small too - I didn't want the speakers sitting too far forward and spoiling the ambience of the room. I like the speakers to be visually in the background - not dominating :-)

If I sit in the "wrong" position in the room (which is about 25 feet square) the bass can be a tad O.T.T. but in my usual, centred (ish) chair, they sound great.
The right hand speaker does have "breathing space" to it's right side as shown.



As they are, they are "almost" invisible to the eye :-)

Not the colour I would choose as they don't match anything else in the room, but they are only demo ones........


I've been using the following: CDX2/XPS/252/Supercap/NAP300
and an LP12/Ittok/DV20X/Stageline for those that are interested in such things.

I tried the new front end through 2x250's active into my SBL's before the swap to one 250 into the NBL's. I thought it was really good - until I changed the 250 for the 300 - then it really came to life.

One 250 = Shirley Bassey sounding great.
One 300 = Shirley Bassey in my sitting room - quite a remarkable difference.
Oh bugger, probably got to save even more money........

I'll keep you posted.

(The old front end was Lp12/Ittok/K18
CDI/82/Supercap

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Blythe,

Wow those NBLs look really small in your room!

However, to make the speakers really "disappear" I find it best if they are against a flat wall with nothing in between. Though I've always wondered how you're supposed to do that and still enjoy a fireplace.

I still wonder what the effect of having NBLS close to a corner is. I haven't heard anyone describe the sound with this arrangement.

Jeremy:
Yes, they do look small :-)

The left NBL although next to the cabinet doesn't seem badly affected by it's proximity. I guess that's because there is a gap behind and under the cabinet, the NBL still effectively has "breathing space". It's not like it's against a solid wall on both sides, if you see what I mean.......

My "lady that does" (cleaner!) thought Oleta Adams sounded as though she was in the room :-)

She was even more gobsmacked when I took the record off the turntable! She'd assumed it was a CD as she'd never heard "quality" vinyl before...

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

wooow don't know what happened there trying to type a reply and suddenly ooppps wheres it gone??


Oh well...

Anyway as I was saying it appears to me that its all about the relative location of the speaker in question to that of the wall bounderies. With bass output being emphasised the closer the speaker is the to both side and back walls.

I'm thinking that the placement of the speaker to the back wall isn't as important as is the distance from the side walls, with some people using them as close as 4 inches from the back wall. I reckon though that you want to have as much room as is poss from the side walls a min of 24 inches. I would imagine though that in this position you could further de-emphasise/unswamp?? the bass output by bringing them further out from the back wall....God I don't half talk crap ...its time for me to say ta ta. My advice is to ignore ..if you can that bloody idiot Matt Worlock he's nothing but trouble

Seriously Jeremy how far apart do you have them at present?

We can take it from there

Mad Boy Matt

Blythe

How would you describe the relative merits of the NBLs and the SBLs you were using (and the SL2s you home demo'd last autumn IIRC)?

quote:

---

Originally posted by JeremyB:
Blythe,

Wow those NBLs look really small in your room!

However, to make the speakers really "disappear" I find it best if they are against a flat wall with nothing in between. Though I've always wondered how you're supposed to do that and still enjoy a fireplace.

I still wonder what the effect of having NBLS close to a corner is. I haven't heard anyone describe the sound with this arrangement.

---

I have a better Idea. Blythe, if you want your NBL's to "really disappear" how about posting us your address. I'll have a vanload of specialist disappearers round your gaff before your "lady that does" gets anywhere near "doing". We'll disappear the picture of your chandelier above the mantlepiece too if you like. That's dead classy.

Oh and by the way, Oleta's mum wants her to call.

Minky:

Of course you can have my address and at the same time, can you arrange to clear out all the other rubbish I have? ;-)

Methinks I don't want them to disappear to that extent!

Thanks for the thought ;-)

Oleta has already left the building........

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bosh:
Blythe

How would you describe the relative merits of the NBLs and the SBLs you were using (and the SL2s you home demo'd last autumn IIRC)?

---

OK: The SL2's have a clarity that the SBL's simply don't match. The SL2's sound bigger than the SBL's too - with a wider, bigger sound stage (I think that's the techno speak). However, when the SL2's went back to the dealer, I really didn't miss them too much and was very happy with the SBL's back in place because, frankly, they (SBL) are a superb speaker in their own right.

I had the NBL's for only a couple of days and they go deeper, have an even bigger sound than SL2's and the detail was simply breathtaking. They just let the music flow like I've never really heard before. The NBL's sounded MUCH better at home than at Naim's headquarters where I first heard them (Naim you really should sort out that room of yours!)

After the NBL's went back, I have to admit, even sveral days later, I miss them like mad. Although the SBL's are great, the NBL's are in another league althogether (and bloomin' well should be at the price!)

The bottom line is, the SL2's are great but I didn't feel the difference was THAT much better than my SBL's.
Yes, they are better, but I didn't feel totally at ease about buying them as a replacement for the SBL's.

The NBL's however, are just so right. I'm ordering a pair tomorrow (New Audio Frontiers are closed on Mondays).
They really did impress me - they sounded great at low levels, high levels and in between.
Just so much detail and so absorbing. Did I mention that I loved them???
Really expressive and the best sound I've ever heard (I only heard DBL's ** years ago and can't really compare)
It was exciting without being tiring, dynamic and smooth. Wonderful.

Downside is I now have to test them passive with a 250 Vs active with 3x250's Vs passive with a 300.
The latter was how I listened to them in the main for the couple of days I had them and was very impressed with the 300, although the fan(s) was/were a bit noisy in between songs..... (I played long and VERY loud each night)

Hope this is of some interest to someone!

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

quote:

---

Hope this is of some interest to someone!

---

Blythe,

It's certainly of interest to me. Your thoughts on the relative merits of SBL/SL2/NBL and of the NBL in general are pretty much a carbon copy of mine. It's easy going back to SBL from SL2 but NBL's are a very different beast. I have had mine for 3 months now and I just love them.

Enjoy.

P.S. 3:30 AM tomorrow OK ?

Blythe, please post your experiences with the different amplification. I'm running my NBLs passive with 135s and they sound fantastic in my opinion but others claim they need more for best results. I would like to know how the NBLs character changes with better amplification.

John

John,

I wouldn't say they "need" more but they certainly respond to more. NBL's with passive 135's were good enough to convince me to switch from my beloved 4 pack SBL's (and my system had a Supercap on the Snaxo) which was no mean feat. At that point I felt I was getting more detail, more bass, more ease of delivery at higher volume.

The only problem was that the soundstage seemed plastered against the back wall and I felt that I had gained refinement at the expense of fun. I was assured that this was a trait of brand new speakers and I have no doubt that my patience would have been rewarded and I would still be a happy 135 owner today if I hadn't asked the innocent question that resulted in an armed transporter being immediately dispatched to my house with a 500 on board.

My advice to you is : Unless you have a specific problem, don't ask the question.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Minky:
It's certainly of interest to me. Your thoughts on the relative merits of SBL/SL2/NBL and of the NBL in general are pretty much a carbon copy of mine. It's easy going back to SBL from SL2 but NBL's are a very different beast. I have had mine for 3 months now and I just love them.

Enjoy.

P.S. 3:30 AM tomorrow OK ?

---

We must be right then if we agree!?!?!

3:30 AM is fine.
By the way, did I tell you My Rottweiller's names are Jaws and Hannibal......... Oh, and the voltage through the electric fence has just been upped to 5,000,000 Volts.......... (Dedicated spur of course!)

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

quote:

---

Originally posted by John:
Blythe, please post your experiences with the different amplification. I'm running my NBLs passive with 135s and they sound fantastic in my opinion but others claim they need more for best results. I would like to know how the NBLs character changes with better amplification.

John

---

Hi John,
I'm again with Minky on this one.

I tried the NBL's firstly passive with one of my 250's. They sounded great, though with something like Shirley Bassey and Oleta Adams, they sounded not quite as "in your face" as I remembered them on my SBL's. It was a little more laid back - you know SBL's are pretty good at the vocal mid-range thing..........
The NBL's seemd increadibly detailed, nice deep bass, sounded very good.
Then the 300 was introduced, replacing the 250 and the whole sound simply was elevated to a new level.
I wrote in an earlier post that with the 250, Shirley Bassey was almost in the room. With the 300, she WAS in the room. They became even more dynamic and simply sounded better in every respect.

I think in real terms, the 300 is the kind of improvement you'd hear when upgrading from a Nait to a 200....... (I haven't actually done the comparison).

The 250 is quite capable of driving the NBL's in a very controlled musical way. It's just when I heard the 300, that within about 2 seconds, I looked at my dealer with an almost shocked expression and he commented "wow" which was just what I was thinking!

I used to run a Nait 2 into Kan II's and then upgraded to 72/140 - the difference reminded me of that experience.
I loved my Nait and the Kans but after hearing the 72/140, I "had to" upgrade........

The NBL's can show off whatever you do nearer the front end, as many other speakers do - I was just shocked at the difference the 300 made.

I have no doubt that your 135's will run the NBL's better than a 250, but you'd have to listen yourself to see how much different and in what way different a 300 might be...

So, the bottom line: Would I be happy with a 250 driving NBL's? Yes.

BUT, I know how much better they sound with a 300 in front of them

Another BUT: I have yet to do the comparison with NBL's and 3 x 250's active, Versus 1x 300 passive.

Mmmmmm, I think it's gonna be expensive........

Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......

Blythe

Very interesting, thanks for this

Regarding the amps, the active 250 route is going to cost a further c.£8500 (almost NAP500 money - £10800) compared with c.£3800 for the NAP300. Would the additional money for the active 250s (c.£4700) be better allocated to a CDS3 (c.£2800) and or XPS2 (c.£1000)

Of course there is no right or wrong answer here and comparisons of the possible combinations becomes prohibitive

(Above costings allow for trade-ins)