most over rated al***s?

Posted by: Sloop John B on 02 January 2006

now by over rated I don't mean crap, albums by necessity have to be rated to be over rated so these are good(ish) albums that somehow have become linked to the holy grail of audio somewhat erroneously (to my ears)

2 come to mind straight away.

1. Beach Boys - Pet Sounds. I really don't get this, the hyperbole on the CD reissue is enough to give indigestion. Although it contains my favourite BB's track (answers please on a postcard) I really only hear a "nice" selection of songs using what at the time were probably unusual instruments for pop records, but I have countless jazz albums from before 1965 that would wipe the floor sonically with Pet Sounds. Many a soul release would do likewise. So to my ears a nice, nay good album, but all time top 5 Noooooooo!

2. David Bowie - Low
I read in some mag an "introduction to David Bowie" suggesting that this was his best album and was where to start one's Bowie collection.
There's a thin line between one muse being lost in a maze of mediocrity or drugs and I feel this one is one the wrong side of the line. Now "Station to Station" that's a different matter!

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by nicnaim

Good on you for giving it another chance, some records just do not grab you straight away.

I first came across them when watching some of the Glastonbury coverage a couple of years ago, and was so bowled over I went out and bought two of their albums the next day. Could not believe the sound that three blokes could make live, although I suppose the White Stripes did pretty well with only two of them!

Regards

Nic

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by kuma:
Erik,

Please stop shouting.

It's not very becoming.

Im not shouting, im not even talking! I am however, sitting here typing (quite quietly) - lie down dear and take an aspirin

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by jayd:
quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
WHO AM I TO DECIDE WHAT IS REAL MUSIC? I'M A PERSON WHO CAN READ A DICTIONARY.

I'm a person who can read a dictionary. I think the Sex Pistols made agreeable sounds (i.e., music, by definition).

Logic nullified.

And thus we prove there really is no accounting for taste. Personally I would slap an ASBO on the whole band.

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Erik

What non-classical music would you consider real music? Does Shirley Collins count?

Rotf

I am sorry Rotf, I have never heard of her or her music. I will check her out and give you a carefully considered opninion

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by nicnaim

quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
quote:
Originally posted by kuma:
Erik,

Please stop shouting.

It's not very becoming.

Im not shouting, im not even talking! I am however, sitting here typing (quite quietly) - lie down dear and take an aspirin

Eric,

I think he was referring to the use of upper case, i.e. shouting. You opinion was perfectly valid, but lower case is less confrontational.

Peace

Nic

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
Whereas science has proved that classical music(mainly baroque and most notably Mozart)increases the connections of neurones in the brain and raises IQ some music (heavy metal/punk/etc/ has the opposite effect - it shuts down neural networks, diminishes intelligence. QED.

I honestly cant remember where I read it but it was in a science magazine and thereafter in some newspapers, I regularly read publications like 'Scientific American' and 'New Scientist' so I guess it was there. I have also seen a TV documenary but that was around 1992/3 so I cant remember much about it - perhaps you could do a search on google and come up with something?

Erik, since you invoke scientific research as part of the proof of your argument, I feel entitled to ask, where did you encounter this "science"? In a peer-review journal? Or was it something you just read in a newspaper or vaguely heard about? Are/were you in any way involved with this kind of work? I'd like to know - not that I'm in any way cynical, of course...

To get back on thread, I've always thought that Astral Weeks was the most rdiculously overrated LP of all time.

I also notice from this month's Q magazine that OK Computer was once again deemed to be the greatest record ever made. It's pretty good, but a very long way off the very best thing in the world ever...

Kevin

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin-W:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by erik scothron:
Whereas science has proved that classical music(mainly baroque and most notably Mozart)increases the connections of neurones in the brain and raises IQ some music (heavy metal/punk/etc/ has the opposite effect - it shuts down neural networks, diminishes intelligence. QED.

I honestly cant remember where I read it but it was in a science magazine and thereafter in some newspapers, I regularly read publications like 'Scientific American' and 'New Scientist' so I guess it was there. I have also seen a TV documenary but that was around 1992/3 so I cant remember much about it - perhaps you could do a search on google and come up with something?

Erik, since you invoke scientific research as part of the proof of your argument, I feel entitled to ask, where did you encounter this "science"? In a peer-review journal? Or was it something you just read in a newspaper or vaguely heard about? Are/were you in any way involved with this kind of work? I'd like to know - not that I'm in any way cynical, of course...

To get back on thread, I've always thought that Astral Weeks was the most rdiculously overrated LP of all time.

I also notice from this month's Q magazine that OK Computer was once again deemed to be the greatest record ever made. It's pretty good, but a very long way off the very best thing in the world ever...

Kevin

The term "Mozart Effect" arose from the work of University of California at Irvine's formidable team, Dr. Francis Raucher, Dr. Gordon L. Shaw, and their colleagues. Their neuroscience/music studies and their findings have caused quite an impact on related fields and some controversy.

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by nicnaim:
quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
quote:
Originally posted by kuma:
Erik,

Please stop shouting.

It's not very becoming.

Im not shouting, im not even talking! I am however, sitting here typing (quite quietly) - lie down dear and take an aspirin

Eric,

I think he was referring to the use of upper case, i.e. shouting. You opinion was perfectly valid, but lower case is less confrontational.

Peace

Nic

Ahh I see now, forgive my ignorence of the norms of procedure here I was merely seeking to differentiate my type from his to avoid confusion.

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by nicnaim

Eric,

I think it is fairly standard internet speak, not just Naim forum.

Wait until they get onto mullet systems etc, there really is a foreign language to learnt on the Hi-Fi! I'm still learning.

Do not be put off all opinions have equal worth, see Fritz's many threads and you will see what I mean.

All the best

Nic

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

Erik, since you invoke scientific research as part of the proof of your argument, I feel entitled to ask, where did you encounter this "science"? In a peer-review journal? Or was it something you just read in a newspaper or vaguely heard about? Are/were you in any way involved with this kind of work? I'd like to know - not that I'm in any way cynical, of course...

Kevin,

A quick search on google....http://parenting-baby.com/Parenting-Baby-Music-Research/Music-Research.html#mozart-effect

gives lists os websites devoted to this subject plus details of how rap/heavy metal etc contribute to 'dysfunction in adolescent behavior'. Even a quick perusal shows the subject of 'the Mozart effect' to be controversial but it is certainly interesting. However, given the choice of playing Mozart to my baby in the womb or the Sex Pistols I know what I would prefer the former, What kind of person would choose the latter? Let me know if you find anything that irrefutably contradicts the mozart effect and I will happily eat some humble pie (surely the most nutritious food?)

Regards

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by nicnaim:
Eric,

I think it is fairly standard internet speak, not just Naim forum.

Wait until they get onto mullet systems etc, there really is a foreign language to learnt on the Hi-Fi! I'm still learning.

Do not be put off all opinions have equal worth, see Fritz's many threads and you will see what I mean.

All the best

Nic

Thanks Nic. Sadly (or perhaps happily?) I have never heard of mullet systems and I'm not now sure if I want to....please advise.

Regards

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by Guido Fawkes

quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Erik

What non-classical music would you consider real music? Does Shirley Collins count?

Rotf

I am sorry Rotf, I have never heard of her or her music. I will check her out and give you a carefully considered opninion

Erik - if you use Pandora - the DIY Radio Station (discussed in other threads on this forum) and type in Shirley Collins then it will play one of Shirley's songs. I can't predict which one. Shirley doesn't write any songs, they are nearly always anonymous. She arranges and sings them - sometimes on her own and sometimes with musicians. Her late sister Dolly wrote many musical scores.

Best regards, Rotf

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by Naimed-In-NY

quote:
Originally posted by Rasher:
Nirvana - Nevermind.
I love the grunge movement and I have a huge amount of Soundgarden, Paw, FooFighters, Smashing Pumkins, Alice In Chains, etc etc, but Nevermind had a handful of great tracks, and the rest were like fillers to me. It may have been the breakthrough album for a new type of rock, but it really isn't that good. I wouldn't buy it again if I lost it.

Completely agree. I'm not a fan of the grunge movement. I constantly hear how this was the album of the 1990s by rock critics and the like, and every Nirvana song I've ever heard on the radio has sounded like crap to me (and I have no clue what the lead singer is singing at least half the time). It's probably me, but I just don't get it.

Mike

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by CPeter

http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

rgds,
Peter

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by nicnaim

Thanks Nic. Sadly (or perhaps happily?) I have never heard of mullet systems and I'm not now sure if I want to....please advise.

Regards[/QUOTE]

Eric,

We will be chastised for being off topic shortly. The link may not help but may give you a laugh.

Regards

Nic
Mullets

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by Squarepusher

The Doors - LA Woman

Great backing band but this guy can't write/hold a tune...

Posted on: 10 January 2006 by jayd

quote:
Originally posted by Naimed-In-NY:
(and I have no clue what the lead singer is singing at least half the time)

My dad leveled this same criticism at music of my era (late 70s–early 80s rock). I expect his dad told him the same RE: Elvis and Buddy Holly.

Oddly, I have little trouble understanding what is being sung in the stuff my daughters listen to. Guess I'm not the man my father (or his father) was. ;-)

Posted on: 11 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by nicnaim:
Thanks Nic. Sadly (or perhaps happily?) I have never heard of mullet systems and I'm not now sure if I want to....please advise.

Regards

Eric,

We will be chastised for being off topic shortly. The link may not help but may give you a laugh.

Regards

Nic
[URL=http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums

Hi Nic,

I am much obliged to you, I did indeed find the link funny and actually laughed out loud a couple of times - your chav in a library was the best imho.

Cheers,

Erik

Posted on: 11 January 2006 by Stephen Tate

The dead kennedys - too drunk to fuck

Posted on: 13 January 2006 by Guido Fawkes

Stephen - did anybody ever rate it in the first place?

Posted on: 14 January 2006 by Stephen Tate

quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Stephen - did anybody ever rate it in the first place?

Rotf,
No i never, but a few of my friends did, and i nearly very nearly got sucked in to this trash, i... was young though!

To sticking to the thread, how about REM - Automatic for the people.

cheers

Posted on: 20 January 2006 by erik scothron

quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Erik

What non-classical music would you consider real music? Does Shirley Collins count?

Rotf

Hi Rotf,

Many thanks for the Pandora link - what an excellent site. I listened to your Shirley Collins - undoubtedly it is real music although not my cup of tea. I used the facility to check similar stuff to her and enjoyed the curved air piece. The nearest voice to hers I like is Annie Haslem's who sang in the classical/folk/rock band 'Rennaissance' have you heard her?

I am sorry Rotf, I have never heard of her or her music. I will check her out and give you a carefully considered opninion

Erik - if you use Pandora - the DIY Radio Station (discussed in other threads on this forum) and type in Shirley Collins then it will play one of Shirley's songs. I can't predict which one. Shirley doesn't write any songs, they are nearly always anonymous. She arranges and sings them - sometimes on her own and sometimes with musicians. Her late sister Dolly wrote many musical scores.

Best regards, Rotf

Posted on: 21 January 2006 by HTK

quote:
Originally posted by erik scothron:
The term "Mozart Effect" arose from the work of University of California at Irvine's formidable team, Dr. Francis Raucher, Dr. Gordon L. Shaw, and their colleagues. Their neuroscience/music studies and their findings have caused quite an impact on related fields and some controversy.

I note that whilst quoting some peer reviewed references in the articles, the formidable team hasn’t had much success getting their theories in this particular area into independent print. This appears more a hobby than a rigorous scientific study. I think one needs to make the distinction.

Cheers

Harry