Linn Klimax DS
Posted by: DeltaSigma on 01 March 2009
I was able to spend a couple of hours yesterday listening to this product at Accent on Music in NY (feeding a 552/250/300/Linn Komri speakers). Although I am not familiar with the Komris and the room was also very new to me, I must say that I found the Klimax DS to be VERY impressive indeed - everything one could want in terms of detail, tunefulness, scale, etc. It is impossible to say for certain how it would compare directly with the Mac/Lavry but there was no way to deny that it is in the very highest of leagues as far as sources are concerned. It grips your attention and draws you into the music in a way that few digital sources (IME) are able to. The single hi-res (24/192) track that I was able to listen to was an absolute revelation in terms of sound quality and one can only hope that more music in this format will be made available in the future.
This is the first time that I have been impressed by a Linn source other than the LP12 and I hope one day to directly compare it to the Mac/Lavry to see which comes out ahead - at the moment I have no idea what the result would be.
For the first time, I was also able to hear the HDX (no PSU) on a couple of tracks in the same system - by comparison it was OK but clearly a step or two behind the Klimax on just about every dimension. In the future, it would be interesting to hear the result of adding an XPS or 555PS to produce a more level playing field where price is concerned - even though my experience with the Mac/Lavry has demonstrated that price is pretty much irrelevant to performance when it comes to the newer digital technologies.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by matt303
I really like the look of the Linn DS range, it really strikes me that someone at Linn has got their head around networked audio. Hopefully Naim will offer a range of streaming players that don't have unnecessary items like CD drives and built in hard disks.
Something like an amp-less Sneaky DS would fit perfectly in my system.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by glevethan
Michael
Glad you finally had the chance to demo the Klimax at Accent. I have been ranting and raving for months that it is one SERIOUS digital component. I have listened to it several times against a HDX - HDX/XPS2 and finally a CDS3/XPS2 (I have my CDS3 with a 555PS).
If one did not already own a digital source than either solution would provide ultimate satisfaction. The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim. At the end of the day the Klimax would most likely be the one to purchase due to the flexibility and convenience factor involved in playback.
Why no post on your Keel yet?
Gregg
PS How did the HDX compare to your Lavry? (although I think I know that answer)
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by DeltaSigma
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
Why no post on your Keel yet?
Gregg
PS How did the HDX compare to your Lavry? (although I think I know that answer)
Gregg:
I have not been able to set the LP12 up yet as I got back home close to midnight last night. I'll set everything up today - the Mana Reference table that I use takes a while to set up properly, and I like to get it right first time and not have to plan to re-do everything for a good while.
I should be able to start listening to the Keel by this afternoon and will post soon afterwards. It did sound quite exceptional yesterday at Accent though...
Re. the HDX vs. the Lavry - I would like to reserve judgment on that one for the time being as I have not been able to hear the Komris before, and in addition the room they are now using at Accent is new to me. Listening to some of the same tracks on the Lavry sounds (a lot) more enjoyable to me in my home system than they did on the HDX but that could simply be a matter of familiarity (with my room, speakers, etc.). I feel that I would be able to make a definite judgment only after hearing them in the same room, system , etc.
What I do know is that if I were to choose between the Klimax DS and the HDX (sans PSU), the decision would be extremely easy to make.
Michael
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim.
That's a BIG 'only difference'.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by gary1 (US)
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim.
That's a BIG 'only difference'.
Agree. We already have one forum member who owned and sold his Klimax DS and now has an HDX.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim.
That's a BIG 'only difference'.
Agreed.
As such if my choice was Klimax vs. CDS3 I would take a CDS3. If I was considering playback of digital files and my choice was Klimax vs. HDX (with or without power supply) I would take the Klimax.
For my ears only (your milage might vary).
Gregg
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by gary1 (US):
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim.
That's a BIG 'only difference'.
Agree. We already have one forum member who owned and sold his Klimax DS and now has an HDX.
Sorry - not for my ears.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by js
I cannot comment on the DS as I haven't had a direct comparison or the unit in the shop but I can say that a PS makes an enormous difference in the overall performance level of the HDX. It's also less money but at these price points, DS or HDX with 555PS, a few kilobucks is not going to be the most significant purchasing factor.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by u5227470736789454
Just checking folks, but is this the Linn Klimax thats about 9500 sterling ?
How does that compere with the HDX, are we looking like for like prices or not ?
Barrie
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by js
I think it's fine that both are mentioned as long as it's also clear that an HDX was sans supply which he did. I'm surprised it wasn't done for him. Perhaps he didn't ask.
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by js:
I think it's fine that both are mentioned as long as it's also clear that an HDX was sans supply which he did. I'm surprised it wasn't done for him. Perhaps he didn't ask.
But for my demos I was able to listen to the HDX with power supply. As such the price becomes almost the same as the Klimax - and I still prefer the Klimax. I also preferred a CDX2 to the HDX (although they were actually about the same) - the CDS3 - just another league altogether.
I will be curious to see what the DAC/555PS sounds like when compared to the CD player lineup.
Gregg
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by BobF
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Originally posted by glevethan:
The only difference between the two boils down (in my opinion) to the differing presentations - Linn vs. Naim.
That's a BIG 'only difference'.
Big enough difference that I prefer my nude HDX over the Klimax DS I had before.
Bob
Posted on: 01 March 2009 by kuma
I used to own Linn CD players which I thought were good. They sound nothing like a Naim CD player.
The same goes for the Sondek PSU ( 'Geddon/lingo ) , phonostage ( Linto/Superline ) and tone arms.
I haven't heard the Linn DS products yet but it's probably a safe assumption that they too, sound different from anything Naim offers.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by u5227470736789454
I think this is an interesting, but fairly academic thread.
According to the posts here ( and internet price trawling), the costs for the Linn Klimax and the (bare)HDX are very different(unless you include a top of the line PSU for the HDX which is down to personal choice anyway )and I assume the LINN cost is including the cost of a NAS, that being said if you want to adjust (or "fudge" as my Physics Master used to say )the parameters you can explain that the costs of both are about the same
So taking that cost differences can be explained away any preferences must be down to sound, and as we know both Naim and Linn have their own house sounds, so my simple advice would be if you prefer the Linn Klimax sound and the Klimax DS then go and buy it and be happy, I'm really not sure of the added value of threads on a Naim forum, or have I missed the point ?
Barrie
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by gary1 (US)
Barrie,
The cost of the Klimax or other DS products does not include a NAS.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by Rockingdoc
In the real world cost is a factor, so surely a fairer comparison, even from a taste point of view is between a naked HDX and a Linn Akurate DS (and perhaps a Mac/DAC). I think that is what most customers would do.
BTW it occurs to me that the previously mentioned iPod/Wadia/DAC combination is extremely portable, so could be taken to a dealer for direct comparison if auditioning the HDX and Linn DS together.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by js
I always find this wide divergence of opinion interesting. I don't think a Klimax DS has a dig out. Do owners think that they would have liked that for the future? I understand things can be improved (if required/desired) by software but you're locked to the unit's DAC. Don't get me wrong, if you think it's all that, it will always be so but I'm curious if it would have been prefered.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by glevethan
quote:
Originally posted by js:
I always find this wide divergence of opinion interesting. I don't think a Klimax DS has a dig out. Do owners think that they would have liked that for the future? I understand things can be improved (if required/desired) by software but you're locked to the unit's DAC. Don't get me wrong, if you think it's all that, it will always be so but I'm curious if it would have been prefered.
It seems to me that the very expensive dollars one will pay for this unit are because of the belief that the internal DAC is one of the best that is out there. Otherwise one would be paying a lot of dollars just to use it as a "pass through" machine to extract the digital signal. In that case something such as a Wadia/iPod could be used to harness the same digital signal - and save many dollars in the process.
If one uses the dig out of a box such as the HDX than effectively does it not turn it into a box that is simply being used as a ripping and "pass through" machine? I do not know if that use has a high vfm quotient.
Gregg
(a happy CDS3/555 owner (but a lover of the Klimax))
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by js
I understand that but things do tend to get better over time when it comes to tech.
VFM is in the initial purchase and if you think that they're just pass through machines with DACs, you're underestimating them. The players and interfacing make a big difference. The value is more maintained if it doesn't become expendable at a point in time that something better comes along if it can still be part of that improvement. If the Klimax DS is a great server and player in general, I don't see a problem with customers continuing to use it as that if it could at some point be improved externally. I do understand it will never be worse than it is now which appears to be plenty good enough for those that have gone that route and that software can also improve it if needed but with upgradability always talked about regarding products in this section, I'm just surprised that this lack of option has never been mentioned.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by abbydog
quote:
Big enough difference that I prefer my nude HDX over the Klimax DS I had before
Bob, did you compare the HDX to the CD555 at all before you made your decision?
I only ask because I found the Klimax DS clearly better than the 555, but I haven't seen any suggestion on here that the HDX beats a 555.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by js
Like I said. The divergence of opinion here is interesting. All 3 mentioned have a top spot on somebody's list.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by DeltaSigma
I think I should mention that the purpose of my visit to Accent on Saturday was purely to pick up my LP12 - I was not intending in any way to listen to the Klimax or to compare it to the HDX. So the comments above with respect to whether the HDX was being treated fairly are somewhat moot in my view - I did mention that the unit I listened to was without a PSU and that that had to be borne in mind.
It so happened however that the dealer was attending to some other customers and I decided to have a listen to the Klimax while waiting for him (to be precise, another customer was in the listening room and I was invited to join him and have a listen). I'm glad I did so because even though I am a confirmed fan of the Mac/Lavry the Klimax has made a huge impression on me and will have to go on the list for consideration for purchase at some time in the future.
Of course, a decision to purchase the Klimax would only be made after comparison not only with the Mac/Lavry DA10 but also with the HDX (with added PSU), Weiss, Lavry 924 and other high performance (and high cost) DACs on the market.
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by BobF
quote:
Originally posted by abbydog:
quote:
Big enough difference that I prefer my nude HDX over the Klimax DS I had before
Bob, did you compare the HDX to the CD555 at all before you made your decision?
I only ask because I found the Klimax DS clearly better than the 555, but I haven't seen any suggestion on here that the HDX beats a 555.
I have never even seen a 555, but I doubt a HDX would sound as good. As I have mentioned on other posts, I bought the HDX to get a Naim voiced source in my mid-level all Naim system. I did not compare the HDX with the Klimax before purchase. I expected to loose sound quality until I could add a power supply, but found that I prefered the HDX nude to the Klimax in my system. The Klimax is a wonderfull component and I am sure some would prefer it.
Cheers
Bob
Posted on: 02 March 2009 by David Dever
Will be interesting to see how the NaimUniti fares among all these options–initial impressions over the two days we had a prototype here in Indianapolis were quite good, and, given the options for uPnP control, let's see what happens....
Posted on: 04 March 2009 by Claus-Thoegersen
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jazzfan:
I think I should mention that the purpose of my visit to Accent on Saturday was purely to pick up my LP12 - I was not intending in any way to listen to the Klimax or to compare it to the HDX. So the comments above with respect to whether the HDX was being treated fairly are somewhat moot in my view - I did mention that the unit I listened to was without a PSU and that that had to be borne in mind.
It so happened however that the dealer was attending to some other customers and I decided to have a listen to the Klimax while waiting for him (to be precise, another customer was in the listening room and I was invited to join him and have a listen). I'm glad I did so because even though I am a confirmed fan of the Mac/Lavry the Klimax has made a huge impression on me and will have to go on the list for consideration for purchase at some time in the future.
Even Naim owners have different preferences for presentation. What was the climax used with. I have heard the DS climax in an all Linn system with their Active speakers, and as I have written elsewhere it was borring to the point of getting to sleep. Lots of base but no drive!
for the price of a new climax DS you can get an HDX with 555 PS wich I am told is very very good at cd 555 level or maybe above. If that is true the DS is beaten no competition at all, no matter the rest of the system used!
Claus
