your top three orchestras

one final observation.

i just listened to this



and watched this



the same work with the same conductor but the berlin philharmonic instead of chicago. berlin is on tour, and they are playing live in a beautiful cathedral in lisbon.

i much prefer the berlin performance. it is a joy to watch the berlin musicians. and their intonation is much more refined. so is the sense of line.

Hi all,

I am completely surprised, that nobody in this mainly British forum mentioned the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields.

This orchestra is surely not first choice for the "big" symphonies of Mahler, Bruckner or the late Beethoven.

But listening to Bach, Haydn, Händel, Mozart or Grieg performed by the Academy, I am quite sure, that this orchestra deserves a place among the very best.

Best wishes

Manfred

Dear Manni,

There is a phenomenal tradition of Chamber Orchestras in Britain - most often ad hoc organisations consisting of the very best freelance players. Often run with the main intention of making very fine recordings and presenting concerts based on the recording plans.

The English Chamber Orchestra, and the ASMF are two such world reknown groups, assembled for performances of the highest calibre.

The starter of this tradition was Adolf Busch, whose Busch Chamber Players was the proto-type for something very special. Really Busch's band was established with the leadership of the Busch Quartet [he being the first violin], familly, friends, and students of the Quartet members to perform mainly Bach's music in appropriately scaled performances, and ground breaking it was.

Then came the Boyd Neil Orchestra, the Goldsborough Orchestra [later the ECO], the London Mozart Players, the ASMF, and outside London such as the Northern Sinfonia, and the Bournemouth Chamber Orchestra. This last was a permanent organisation which shared a partnership with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, and was sadly snuffed out in less than a week without notice, because of Arts Council [Government run State subvention organisation for the Arts in UK] funding shortfalls, some years ago.

Another almost unheard of [today] Chamber Orchestra of real quality was the Langham Chamber Orchestra, so calleed because it was based at BBC Broadcasting House in Langham Place, Portland Street in London. Though this was a "training orchestra" for young players run by the BBC it had standards as high as any orchestra, and for years was led by the great Lenny Hirsch, who was the first leader of the Philharmonia from 1945. Their few recordings [made for the BBC and not often easily obtained as commercial issues] are priceless! They generally gave live broadcast concerts over the BBC.

You are quite right to point out the quality found in UK based chamber orchestras.

An interesting aspect of the organisation of the BBC Symphony Orchestra right from the start in 1930 is that it was sufficiently large in number of players that it could split into three for simultaneous performances - as a chamber group for say the Beethoven Septet, a chamber symphony orchestra, and also a Mahler-sized symphony orchestra. This was mirrored in the Danish Radio Orchestra, which is even older.

Sir Adrian Boult was given the task of setting up the BBC SO and consulted Adolf Busch on the requirements for chamber orchestras, so in many ways Busch's London appearances in the thirties had already been forshadowed [on his own advice] by Boult's BBC SO organisation. It is a long and noble tradition in the UK.

There is a funny story about Karajan in the EMI Abbey Road Studio in about 1950, where in the smaller [Number Two] studio he heard the London Mozart Players recording a Mozart Serenade under Harry Blech. [Number Three Studio was used for solo recitral work and recording pop music] .He asked what orchestra it was and on being told made the startling remark that the Austria should establish the Salzburg Shakespeare Players! The London Mozart Players was the first orchestra I ever heard in a concert in 1973, playing an all Mozart programme including the Flute and Harp Concerto and the Fortieth Symphony under Harry Blech was remained cheif conductor for a good forty years! It was great!

Best wishes from George

well I've not heard all of these orchestras and my main squeeze is Salonen and the LA Phil, I like that clean sound he gets, but I'm told it was started with Giulini who really taught them how to really play together, Salonen has really brought forth a contemporary sound.

Chicago was/is great, Berlin wonderfully full, and different orchestras, conductors and soloists have different temperaments so a definite ranking is just beyond me. That's why I don't buy boxed sets of one composer or orchestra because different strengths happen to pull out moments, or whole pieces, into the sublime.

in early 90s I heard John Adams conducting the LA Phil at Ojai, One piece obviously by a small group from the orchestra did the Quartet for the End of Time. First time I ever heard it, I almost cried it was so sad. I bought it by someone else and it just isn't that special. Maybe the performance, but it was a spiritual moment I won't forget.

After Disney Hall was built the second season had Rattle and BPO visiting, they ended with Schubert's Great C Major, I probably got that title wrong. He was so dynamic at the end, I've never EVER seen a classical audience jump to their feet and scream with thunderous applause. It was a THRILL. I don't think you could get that in a studio recording.

George,
While having no disagreement with your catalogue of English chamber orchestras, I must put in a plug for the superb Manchester Camerata. They just seem to get better and better.
Regards,
Ken

Dear Ken,

It was already bit of a long post, and for sure mainly biased towards the London scene.

I think that we would certainly agree that there are no second rank UK based chamber orchestras! Professional ones I mean!

ATB from George

if we're going to include chamber orchestras, orpheus in new york needs to be on the list.

I heard St Paul and European Chamber Orchestras play together on a live broadcast Saturday night. Just wonderful. I didn't hear the intro so thought this was an English outfit, but it's from Minnesota and over half of them have other professional careers so they get together for fun. whoda thunk Minnesota?