Copy Control Technology

Mats S,

I had the same problem with One by One - it only shows up on higher end players, playing fine on cheap units.

I contacted BMG direct and found every UK copy was faulty, and am currently waiting for the new production run for a replacement directly from BMG.

If you look for the New Foo's thread in the Music Room, you'll find more.

Andy.

Copy protection is turning into a real problem for music lovers. I won't repeat what's already been said on a number of previous threads but you may be interested by these sites;

http://ukcdr.org/issues/cd/
http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html

I've reported this post. Maybe I'll get banned. And so close to 1000 posts, too.

I've asked Big Brother to do something about BMG's issuing non-red book standard CDs, and to explain the 'report' facility.

Regards.

Phil

I expressed my concerns in no uncertain terms to BMG over the Foo Fighters disc.

Interestingly the UK release was never intended to have copy control, this was an error, and the BMG representative said that it's the faulty, incorrect application of the technology that has caused the problem on this release.

I'm not so convinced myself...

Andy.

Richard,

It would be interesting to me and others I'm sure to have an explanation as to why the problem seems more evident on more expensive players (not just Naim, but you can obviously only comment on your own!) and not inexpensive players.

My understanding is that some of the copy control technologies introduce errors that cannot be corrected by the Cross Interleave Reed-Solomon Code, and are hence covered by interpolation (C1 / C2 errors?).

Do your players make a different decision on when to interpolate compared to cheap units, or is there some other reason?

Andy.

Andrew

As far as we are aware this type of copy protection(10 sec blips) has nothing to do with Cross Interleave Reed-Soloman Codes or Interpolation.

We know of other anti piracy protection systems and it would appear that our players play discs containing these "systems" without any problem! We are currently colating information regarding the "blips"and will comment further in the near future.

There are no particular reasons why some cheaper CD players don't register the "blips". All CD player manufacturesr have different error strategies but we have no knowledge which players play copy protected discs.

It should be born in mind that ALL Naim player were designed to play "Red Book" discs which they do very successfully!

We've stuck to the rules!

Later

Doug

I have a number of gripes concerning BMG and truly believe the company must be run by a bunch of nitwits, at least here in Germany.

When I was younger, their dubious business was limited to shady book clubs who sent touts into the streets.

Now it seems they head the list of companies selling non-standard CDs.

I rent at least one DVD a week, mainly because it is the only way for me to watch films in their original (i.e. undubbed) version. I have to give one out of four or five releases I would like to watch a miss because the producer/distributor skimped on licencing fees for the original sound*. Out of those I give a miss, most are produced by ... you guessed it ... BMG Video. The height of absurdity is DVDs that have the original version, but won't allow you to switch off the German subtitles (deliberate stunting of a brave new technology).

I've written to BMG asking fairly politely about this and have -- naturally -- not received an answer.

Thomas

* You wouldn't believe how crap most of the dubbing is. Technically, it's done quite well, but the quality of the translations is abysmal.

[This message was edited by Thomas K on WEDNESDAY 08 January 2003 at 18:38.]

Hi,

I contacted BMG here in Sweden about about two CDs that I cannot play. They have received reported problems from people using DENON and Harman Kardon CD players as well. A funny detail is that a specific RENAULT car model has the problems playing BMG's copy controlled CDs!

The people at BMG have been friendly, and promised me to provide non-copy controlled CD copies. I'll keep you all informed about the process.


Mats S

Further update re: One by One.

Received the 'new' version the other day and it still jumps 10s into every track.

Looks like BMG cocked up again having talked to my contact, there will now be a new version, under a different catalogue number, delivery about 2 weeks.

What a farce...

Andy.

P.S. Mats - the latest version wouldn't play in the BMG contact's car player either

The perfect 'copy control' is to sell cd's at sensible prices, and to stop releasing albums which have 10 mins good stuff and 60 mins of crap. It's high time Trading Standards took a serious attitude to this fraudulent passing off of sub standard product as genuine CD's.

"All systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get."

Hi,

If I'm luckier than Andrew, I'll get a new copy from BMG that works. But, after all, does it really matter?
I don't have the time or energy to make telephone calls to BMG, EMI, Virgin etc and ask for a playable CD copy that at best arrives 4 weeks later. I'm too old for this sh*t! So tell me, why should I bother keeping my Naim CD player at all? What's your opinion Andrew ?

/Mats S

quote:

---

So tell me, why should I bother keeping my Naim CD player at all? What's your opinion Andrew ?

---

Good question - maybe because you like it with CD's (as opposed to these corrupted discs).

If you find a player as good as your Naim, and it plays these discs OK, let us know, maybe more will come of it then.

This could get to be a big problem, in a small industry, Naim are insignficant in the big record companies scheme of things, and consequently are hardly able to do much about it - as a combined industry I would think that it could have an impact, but frankly I see little chance of co-operation amongst every major high-end company.

It needs masses of ordinary people to complain, such that it becomes too much hassle for the record companies to maintain, those who can't play discs in their cars etc.

So keep it up Mats, you're doing your little bit for the future of music, however frustrating. I suggest getting more press coverage too, most of it has been limited to the specialist press so far, it needs more general coverage in music pub's and other more mainstream avenues.

Andy

Mat S

It's not Naim thats screwing the system. Don't you think you'd be playing into the hands of those big record companies that most seem to despise by changing your player?

As I stated previously, Naim are looking at possible software "fixes" concerning these "rogue" discs. So, if you feel that the one or two copy protected discs in your collection are causing you grief I would suggest that you keep complaining (rightly so) to the perpetrators.

We will announce our findings shortly.

Later

Doug

[This message was edited by Richard Dane on MONDAY 27 January 2003 at 12:01.]

Dough,

I know it is not Naim that is screwing my system. Of course I would be playing into the hands of those record companies, but I cannot win a war over them , can I ? Not when 90% of all people owns a CD player that can play these CDs. The Market rules. I have written to a journalist in the next biggest morning paper in Sweden. The journalist thinks this is interesting and wants me to keep her updated.

This Saturday I had been looking forward to buy a new CD by 'Melody Club' but I couldn't since the CD was a copy control one. To not be able to buy records anymore is a social problem.

Another social problem this has created is that my friends owning Linn CD players e.g Ikemi, are laughing at me like wolves since they have no problem whatsoever with copy controlled CDs.

I don't want to change my Naim CD. So, please Dough, work on that SW fix. Introduce night-shift :-)

/Mats S

Hi,
Virgin sent me a new copy! It works too.
BTW, BMG told me that Cactus is making a mark II of their copy control technology due to all hazzle with some CD players...
/Mats