First FZ al***. What have I missed?

Plenty FZ recommendations on previous threads. Personally, I don't think Frank's wildly divergent stylistic output is well served by the 'best of' format. 'Hot Rats' is a fairly common first purchase, before taking the plunge into the further out stuff.

This is hard question. I don't know what's on the best of FZ. Frank went through lots of phases.

The early stuff has nice tunes with some unusual interludes. My favourite from this period is "We're Only In It For The Money". My least favourite is "Rueben and the Jets", which sounds like Showaddywaddy. The first wo albums "Freak Out" and "Absolutely Free" are excellent BTW. There was a compilation that Frank put together called "Mothermania", if it is available then get it - it has highlights from the first three albums and includes great versions of "Duke of Prunes" and "Call Any Vegetable (and the chances are good that the vegetable will respond to you)"

Frank then moved on to film music Uncle Meat - this is a great album. The film was never finished, but those who seen what was made say it was rubbish, so perhaps it is just as well. I love "King Kong", "Dog Breath Variations" and "Project X". Some superb Xylophone by Ruth Underwood. Frank followed this with the rather good "Burnt Weeny Sandwich" - mostly instrumental stuff.

The original Mothers split, Frank did a jazzy album called "Hot Rats" with Captain Beefheart singing the vocal on "Willy The Pimp". Then he recorded a solo album called "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" - another gem - "Oragne County Lumber Truck" and "My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama" are super tracks.

Then he joined up with the Turtles! It wasn't his greatest period and it was a disaster for the Turtles. It started with the OK "Chunga's Revenge", but then descended into crude jokes set to music Filmore East was dire and Just Another Band from LA even worse - avoid like plague. In the middle of this came 200 Motels: film and soundtrack, again OK, but not great.

Then Frank fell off the stage at the Roundhouse (or Rainbow). He returned with a big band and made two excellent jazz rock albums: "Waka Jawaka" and "Grand Wazoo".

Then came a flawed masterpiece called "Overnite Sensation" - great album except for the rather silly "Dinah Mo Hum". More of the same for "Apostrophe". Notable on these albums are the excellent musicians - Jean Luc Ponty and George Duke.

A pretty good live album "Roxy and Elsewhere" followed, but Frank seemed to be in a bit of rut, the albums weren't bad, but they seemed more of the same to me. of course occasional flashes of genius Dancing Fool.

He broke away with "You are what you is" - I liked that album. The final FZ album I bought was "Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch".

My recommendations would be Threesome Vol.1: Freak Out/Absolutely Free/We're Only in It for the Money [Box set] £13.99 and Threesome Vol.2: Hot Rats/Waka/Jawaka/the Grand Wazoo [Box set] £15.99 and you'd have my six favourite FZ albums (apart from Overnite Sensation and Uncle Meat).

I hope this helps

Wow, ROTF, brings me back to my teenage days (when everybody needed to be able to quote some of FZ's unspeakable lyrics...) MY first (and still one of the most appreciated) contacts with FZ was "In New York", a fabulous live album. Saw the maestro live in 1979...

cheers
Stefan

'Zoot Allures' if only for the magnificently perverted 'The Torture Never Stops'.

John.

ROTF a superb reply thank you.The sleeve notes of best of.. listed all the albums and I noticed the repackaged triples and thought they looked like good VFM.

BTW is there anyone you don't have an encyclopeadic knowledge of?

regards

Howard

A few that I've enjoyed:

Bongo Fury
Zappa in New York
Joe's Garage

All the best,
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
BTW is there anyone you don't have an encyclopeadic knowledge of?

regards

Howard

Lots Howard, this forum often throws up names of people that I've never heard of (I'm sorry but I still don't get Miles Davis). However, I do seem retain a lot of facts about some artists that ensures "I'm always in the kitchen at parties".

Kuma and Gianlugi often listen to lots of records I've never heard by atists I've never heard of.

FZ though was an extraordinary character.

He offered the Alice Cooper Group the chance to record and produce their first album on his Straight label. By the time the group turned up, Frank was off working on something else and they had to produce their own album. At least Frank released the first two records.

Frank recorded Wild Man Fischer. I believe he was in an asylum when Frank came across him. I heard the album once and it's awful. This album is not available on CD as Frank and Fischer fell out and Frank refused to allow it to be released.

On the plus side, and there were many, Frank recorded some great music. He used to write scores for almost everything. Sugar Cane Harris, jazz violin, once said that Frank would write an extremely complex thing for him to play and, as it reached its climax, get the band to shout 'om tiddly om pom, pom pom'.

Frank always described himself as a reasonable guitarist. He felt he wasn't up there with the best. However, just listen to "Shut yer mouth and play your guitar" and I think you'll hear just what a great guitarist he was.

Frank gave an interview on the BBC and brought with him an adult magazine. He asked the interviewer what he thought of the magazine and then said "Do you know what I think when I see something like that?" When the interviewer said he didn't, Frank said "I think, there's got to be an album in there somewhere".

Frank always used to quote Edgard Varese (his favourite composer) on his early Mother's albums sleeves.

"The present day composer refuses to die!"

Frank was extraordinary with more than a touch of the avant garde - as Jimmy Carl Black, the Indian of the group, once said.

Does anbody know who Suzy Creamcheese was?

Rotf

Second the link to modern classical music. At a recent exhibition of Varese music and manuscripts at the Tinguely museum in Basel there was a letter from a precocious 16 year old Zappa to Varese asking to meet him in New York and offering suggestions on how he (Varese) could develop his style!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ROTF:
Then Frank fell off the stage at the Roundhouse (or Rainbow)
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

It was the Rainbow. Actually, he was pushed off the stage by a jealous fan whose girlfriend fancied Frank. He sustained serious injury and spent many months in a wheelchair. He always employed bodyguards after this incident. Frank was also prosecuted for obscenity after a performance at the Royal Albert Hall. Both these episodes resulted in him developing a very low opinion of Britain. He disliked visiting the country.

Frank was an intensely contradictory character. He was a typical American right-wing libertarian with huge contempt for petty bureaucracy, censorship and sexual repression and hypocrisy. He was a counter-cultural icon but despised the superficial 'free-love', dope-addled ethos of the hippies, was vehemently anti-drugs and would sack any member of his band who even smoked dope. One time Mother and future Little Feat guitarist, Lowell George, recounts the condescending attitudes of the classical musicians Frank hired to play on his records, only to be confronted with the scores which were some of the most technically challenging pieces they ever had to play.

There is some superb footage on youtube of Frank destroying the congressional hearings on obscenity in rock music, brought by the PMRC in the eighties. He truly was one of the funniest, deadliest and most articulate critics of stupid politicians everywhere. He is missed now more than ever.

Thanks ROTF I was being complementary not sarcastic. Looks like plenty to work my way through.I always new him as an outspoken avant garde person. Early on I heard some of his what I would have called then "music".It must have form a barricade in my mind which has since rotted away(the barricade not my mind).

Howard

Wasn't Frank the honorary culture attaché for the Czech Republic when Vaclav Havel was president?

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
Thanks ROTF I was being complementary not sarcastic.

Howard

I took it as a complement

I had thought of trying Mastermind with HMHB as my specialist subject, but my general knowledge is not up to it.

Zoot allures
You are what you is.
Sheik Yerbouti
Joe`s Garage
Ship arriving too late to save a drowning witch.
Jazz From Hell

• An old rumor states that at some point in the 1960s, Zappa once won a gross-out contest by eating his own excrement on stage. Zappa refutes the claim, noting, "For the record, folks: I never took a shit on stage, and the closest I ever came to eating shit anywhere was at a Holiday Inn buffet in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 1973." (Zappa and Occhiogrosso (1989:14)).

quote:

Originally posted by Malky:
Frank was an intensely contradictory character. He was a typical American right-wing libertarian ...

Maybe you'll agree that the contradiction you see is not a contradiction to libertarians. Libertarianism is still conservative in many respects, being against government, for self-discipline and self-reliance, and against being responsible for others. It was his money to spend. If people didn't like how he ran his business, they could always go elsewhere.

My shortlist for starters would be "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" 1,2 and 3.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AlexanderVH:
Maybe you'll agree that the contradiction you see is not a contradiction to libertarians. Libertarianism is still conservative in many respects, being against government, for self-discipline and self-reliance, and against being responsible for others.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are correct in your assertion of libertarianism, however that is not what I meant. In some respects Zappa was immensely socially progressive eg. anti- racist but had problems with actively supporting integrated schooling. He celebrated some aspects of a multi-cultural society but was fearful of other aspects (see 'trouble Every Day' from Freak Out) He attacked Reagan and Bush Snr, spoke out against Gulf war 1 but supported Reaganomic policies like union busting. He attacked sexual hypocrisy and (gratifyingly) nailed slimeballs like TV evangelists but this could often descend into abysmal sexism and homophobia.
I LOVE Zappa. Whilst disagreeing with his politics I can find much to admire in his creativity, intelligence, humour and wonderful ability to prick the bubble of pomposity.

Hi

I agree with AlexanderVH – I think the ‘You can’t do that onstage anymore’ series offers a great way in to Zappa. A bit like buying a ‘best of’ album but with each of the recordings being unique. It also gives you an inclination of the intimidating size of the repertoire he expected his band to be able to play at a moments notice

Personally I am a big fan of the later stuff – I know a lot of it is a bit silly bit I love.

Them or Us (1984)
You are what you is (1981)
Tinsel Town Rebellion (1981)
Joe’s Garage (1979)
Sheik Yerbouti (1979)

Or, if you fancy some hardcore guitar solos try ‘Shut up and play your guitar’.

Cheers

worm

ROTF

According to the Barry Miles biography, Suzy Creamcheese was Pamela Zarubica who he met in 1965ish and hung around with for 6 months and she introduced him to his future wife.

worm

quote:

Originally posted by worm:
ROTF

According to the Barry Miles biography, Suzy Creamcheese was Pamela Zarubica who he met in 1965ish and hung around with for 6 months and she introduced him to his future wife.

worm

Thanks - I always wondered.

I thought Suzy Creamcheese was more than one person.

Malky, I think the contradictions are there because they're perceived through (american) liberal progressive eyes.
So I'm still not sure what you mean.

Libertarians and liberals often draw similar conclusions , eg anti-racist, but they use a different model.
When the conclusions suddenly diverge, the question becomes, who is the person seeing the contradiction?
It's quite normal for libertarians to be anti-unions, and a good deal of them will be anti-drugs(but they will all be anti-government interference).

A side of Zappa I can't appreciate is that he could be , well, cruel. Nevermind if people 'deserved it'.

To me he didn't appear particularly sexist or homophobic(but that would not have been contradictory either).
Misanthropic though.

But yeah, I still like him too

ROTF, here is a list of 3 people who have played Suzy Creamcheese. I can't confirm or deny , and I deny any responsibility for the content of the link

quote:

Originally posted by AlexanderVH:
ROTF, here is a list of 3 people who have played Suzy Creamcheese. I can't confirm or deny , and I deny any responsibility for the content of the link

Thanks Alexander

Alexander & ROTF

They are two different questions.

Who was Suzy Creamcheese?

Who played Suzy Creamcheese?

Barry Miles' book give the impresion that Pamela Zarubica was Suzy.

In fact in the index her details are listed as 'Zarubica, Pamela (Suzy Creamcheese)'.

Cheers

worm

Agreed worm, I was wondering about it as I wrote my post:

Was the character fictional?
Did it refer to a specific person?
Was it fictional but inspired by a real person?
Did it refer to a real person in the beginning but did it become fictional later on?
Did it refer to a real type of person rather than a specific person?
The last choice fits best with how I understand Zappa.

I don't intend to find out how it went but it's generally good practice to be aware of the scope of possible answers.

I've read Zappa's own book, it was witty and intelligent.
It was also enough, no plans for another one.

I really like Overnite Sensation... First Zappa album I ever bought....

Cheers

Mike

Love Frank.

I'd recommend Broadway the Hard Way if you want extremely good tunes, very focused / less experimental performance, biting lyrics - good and easily "consumable" stuff all round. Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk is musical genius without being up itself.

I'd go for You Can't Do that Instage Anymore 1-3 as well.