My trip to Edinburgh - the wanderer returns

Posted by: Steve Toy on 19 February 2002

I have just got back from my trip to TC's, and I can say that in musical terms, John's system is the most enjoyable set-up I have heard outside of my dealer's dem room to date.
Bar none!

John's system - Clearaudio deck/Chord Solid/DNM pre (can't remember which one, but it retails at 1750 GBP)/Crimson monoblocks, all on QS Ref./Nordost Red Dawn cables/Neat Petite/Gravitas on Mana. had all the musical fundamentals in place - PR&T, tune, air, space and blackness and overall involvement.

[Oh, and Vuk, you take great pics, but I think you'd be a bit worried if you heard this system - I think you should now start taking note and showing more respect towards these "Cats and Toys"... ]

The only caveat being that his neighbours need to get out more.

Most of the time we listened at very low volumes, so I felt that the system was teasing me somewhat.

The one occasion that the volume was cranked a little was pure delight!

The Marantz CD recorder made a good stab at CD reproduction at its price - it compares favourably against a Rega Planet, IMHO, but was obviously outclassed by the rest of the system, and my own CDX I brought along completely trounced it beyond even his expectations [TC, over to you on this one...]

The CDX was more dynamic, tuneful, tighter and faster in the bass, but lacked a little top-end airiness and focus using the standard Naim DIN-DIN interconnect straight into the DIN sockets at the back of the DNM pre.

We then tried my Chord Anthems instead, using DIN-RCA adaptors at each end. This brought back the air, space and image focus, as well as the detail that I am used to from this player in my own system (the whispering voice heard at the start of the Ray of Light track by Madonna returned,) but it also made the bass sound perhaps a little too full to his tastes, but this may have simply exposed an issue of the speaker positioning in his room.

Sybil (James) was also present during these dems. He is probably the youngest member of this forum, but he sure knows his stuff , and I later went to his house to hear his system - and my CDX with the Music Works Block and leads.

He is using a 62/140 to drive Isobariks. When he told me this, my reaction was one of, "no way, that cannot work!"

I was expecting the Briks to sound leaden and flat.

They didn't. When the CDX was warmed up, and had made itself at home in this system, I was treated to one of the most spectacularly musical presentations that I have ever heard.

This is the second time I have heard Briks, and this time (unless my memory fails me) they sound more musical, i.e: tuneful, if a lot less "hi-fi" in some respects - notably sheer output, scale, dynamics and detail.

There was no Mana or QS in sight, just stands whose names I don't recollect.

The tune was there, it timed like a bastard (to quote Mr Ribee ) it was fast, agile, articulate, and detailed - that whispering voice was heard at the start of Ray of Light about 6 inches above the top of the Bricks and slightly to the right...

Yes, this system defied all logic and personal experience to date - it did imaging, depth, space and blackness; oh, and the bass - totally controlled, punchy and very tuneful.

The only drawback, IMHO, was that the 140 did drive the Briks to reasonably high levels - far higher than TC's neighbours would ever have tolerated , but the dynamics started to flatten out a bit, and we stopped short of pushing the system towards hardness.

If I had the room, I'd try and get me some Briks, because they are truly awesome beasts for all the right reasons.

James is very fortuate that his listening room has wonderful sonic properties which are totally suited to Isobariks - the ceiling is 4m high, and the listening position is 6m away. I think the Briks were about 2.5m apart.

If we used John's TT and amps on QS Ref. and his cables at James's place with his Briks, that would be mind-blowing...

I left wanting a big room and Briks, James was left wanting a CDX. Unfortunately, neither of us will get what we want in the near future.

For the record, TC also cooked me an excellent Rogan Josh and took me to a local pub which served wonderful beers - Bass, Caledonian Deuchars and Eighty Shilling, Hoegaarden, Pilsner Urquell, as well as a few decent malts - the Laphraig was rather good.

I left that place feeling most satisfied, and he was more than nice enough to let me dent his whisky collection a little when we got back to his place!

Cheers,

Steve.

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on WEDNESDAY 20 February 2002 at 05:38.]

Posted on: 19 February 2002 by Steve Toy

Stop being a tw#t.

It is for the sake of the forum.

Back to the thread...

Cheers,

Steve.

Posted on: 19 February 2002 by Steve Toy

James was happy to admit the contributory factor of the MW as well as the CDX.

Cheers,

Steve.

Posted on: 19 February 2002 by P

http://www.bartsoft.com/mov_madonna.htm

Posted on: 19 February 2002 by Peter Stockwell

TC, Steve,

Glad to see you had a good time, enjoying some tunes, with some good food and liquid refreshment. The 140 must be a little cracker of an amp ? Steve, pity you wont be able to manage the CDX when you come to (not TX).

'nils ilegetimi carburundum' as we used to say when I was a schoolboy.

Peter

Posted on: 20 February 2002 by Top Cat

Hi folks.

Yeah, it was good to meet Mr Toy, a very pleasant chap and a dead-ringer for Mr Pig of the Mana Forum - they could pass for brothers!

Anyway, the CDX was impressive. I'd never tried a CDX in my system and I was very impressed by what it did - clearly and undeniably ahead of the Marantz cd-recorder that's been on stand-in duties for a while. The CDX excelled on most stuff, although some out-of-character choral stuff did grate slightly, but then that wouldn't be fair to the CDX as it put up an engaging, taut and musical performance. The Chord Anthem interconnects were disappointing in the bass- both James and I felt that the stock Naim lead was better in the bass, although from midrange up the Chord lead, um, led.

The record deck was still some way ahead of the CDX, and so it should be, but I could have quite happily kept the CDX, so fine was it in the context of the system. Sure, an XPS would be better still, and although I haven't to date managed to hear a CDS-II, that must be a special beastie indeed if what I've read on this and other forums is to be believed.

For the record, I'd state that I much prefered the CDX/3B Primus/Crimson/Neat system to the CDX/XPS/82/SC/250/Sonus Faber system that my dealer gets such a great sound out of. By some margin, although obviously I've never had that system in my room (or vice versa).

I enjoyed the CDX enough to want one. Badly. Except I now must seek out a CDS-II/XPS and demo against a CDX/XPS to decide if that extra few kilos is justified for my tastes...

Moving aside from that: my cables are all fairly new (Nordost SPM interconnects and Red Dawn speaker cables) and so may or may not have run-in to do (depending on whether you buy into that concept or not), so I'd expect further improvements to the system, plus replacing the stock Naim interconnect with the second SPM interconnect (which is getting reterminated right now) would certainly improve the detail and tactile nature of the CDX's performance.

It was great to meet Steven and James once more, even if the hangover took all of yesterday to dissipate completely...

Cheers lads,

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Posted on: 20 February 2002 by Top Cat

Oh, that's witty, Vuk. My, it's great to know that that education wasn't wasted, eh?

Vuk, you're becoming about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit and infinitely less interesting. Is there no beginning to your talents?

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on THURSDAY 21 February 2002 at 07:33.]

Posted on: 20 February 2002 by Top Cat

I've decided that I can't live without that CDX-plus sound, which is the closest I've yet heard to CD not being embarrassed by the turntable.

So, I'm off on the hunt for a CDS-II/XPS or a CDX/XPS (I'll keep my eyes peeled for s/h examples first of all, as I'm in no hurry - after all, gotta raise the cash first!)

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

[This message was edited by Top Cat on WEDNESDAY 20 February 2002 at 14:02.]

Posted on: 20 February 2002 by Steve Toy

Thanks TC!

Yes, the Clearaudio is, er, clearly better than the CDX - it should be!

Personally, I can' really get on with the poor availability of vinyl - especially in my area, so I want somethng that makes my CDs sound enjoyable more than I want to max out on a medium which is sonically superior, but requires a bit too much fiddling, IMHO.

The CDS2 and Clearaudio deck should come in about level, I reckon.

Good luck with your search...

Cheers,

Steve.

Posted on: 20 February 2002 by Andrew Randle

TC,

What did I say about the CDX? Yep it's a cracker and I said you want one!

ST said:

quote:
The only caveat being that his neighbours need to get out more.

TC, you wanna live in a garage like I do

ST said:

quote:
For the record, TC also cooked me an excellent Rogan Josh and took me to a local pub which served wonderful beers

Yeah, but you didn't get coffee and biscuits now did you!

TC said:

quote:
Yeah, it was good to meet Mr Toy, a very pleasant chap and a dead-ringer for Mr Pig of the Mana Forum - they could pass for brothers!

I am sure Mr. Pig will be over-the-moon when you tell him about his long-lost-brother.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by Steve Toy

quote:
TC, you wanna live in a garage like I do

Andrew,

Could you please elabotate on the exact nature of your listening room and its proximity to neighbours.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by Steve G

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:

The Marantz CD recorder made a good stab at CD reproduction at its price - it compares favourably against a Rega Planet, IMHO,

I thought it gave a similar quality of sound to £150 players I've heard but like them it suffered from poor bass control in my opinion.

quote:

but was obviously outclassed by the rest of the system, and my own CDX I brought along completely trounced it beyond even his expectations [TC, over to you on this one...]

I've been trying to persuade TC he needed a decent CD player - it sounds like he's convinced now!

quote:

Sybil (James) was also present during these dems. He is probably the youngest member of this forum, but he sure knows his stuff

He knows his stuff as far as hi-fi is concerned but his taste in music is woeful!

quote:

, and I later went to his house to hear his system - and my CDX with the Music Works Block and leads.
He is using a 62/140 to drive Isobariks. When he told me this, my reaction was one of, "no way, that cannot work!"
I was expecting the Briks to sound leaden and flat.
They didn't. When the CDX was warmed up, and had made itself at home in this system, I was treated to one of the most spectacularly musical presentations that I have ever heard.

I've heard his system with 62/110 and my Micromega player and it really sounded very good.

quote:

If I had the room, I'd try and get me some Briks, because they are truly awesome beasts for all the right reasons.
James is very fortuate that his listening room has wonderful sonic properties which are totally suited to Isobariks - the ceiling is 4m high, and the listening position is 6m away. I think the Briks were about 2.5m apart.

The room is a little bright sounding but otherwise great and it does give the speakers lots of room to breathe. I took 2 things away from hearing Jame's system:

1) The room size and dynamics are _very_ important.

2) Briks are great (but ugly) speakers if you have the room and they're not as difficult to drive as folks make out.

Regards
Steve

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by Andrew Randle

I'm renting a flat that's a renovated garage with front and back extension. The flat is connected to the landlady's conservatory, which is connected to her kitchen. The main area of the flat has windows in the pitched roof

Neighbours are at least 5m away from the "garage" and the system occupies the main part of the flat.

All in all, it enables free reign of the volume control

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by Steve G

quote:
Originally posted by sybil:

Alas a CDX or anything in its price range is way above my budget, so I was wondering what gains could be realised by using something like a CDi? Is the absolute quality of the CDX so far ahead, or is the system synergy the most important thing?

We could try my CD3.5 in your system, with and without a SNAPS2 powering it.

Regards
Steve

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by garyi

James.

The CDi is a great machine. Alas mine is in for repair and I am literaly suffering with a cheap Ariston CDP I borrowed, and it is utter crap. This is really my first *total* experience of sound difference between CDPs.

Of course the price differece is substantial but there you go.

Anyway back to the point, my CDi is in for repair, this time I may be lucky. The thing is even the latest ones are old, you may find that it will last a few years then die on you, spare parts for the beasts are rare and to that end I wouldn't suggest paying out say 700-900 for one, I would have thought a CD3.5 with a flat cap or hi capat similar prices would be very rewarding with a few more years on the clock!

I am going to see this CDi out, (yes it is that good) but need to face the fact that they are getting on a bit.

Posted on: 21 February 2002 by Top Cat

Steve G wrote:

quote:

Originally posted by Steven Toy:
The Marantz CD recorder made a good stab at CD reproduction at its price - it compares favourably against a Rega Planet, IMHO,
I thought it gave a similar quality of sound to £150 players I've heard but like them it suffered from poor bass control in my opinion.

I have to disagree. Whilst bass control is not in the same league as the CDX (and it would be daft to expect it to be), the player doesn't do as badly as any £150 CD player I've yet come across. With the SPM in place (and that's daft too, seeing as it's a cable worth 2x the cd source!) bass control is acceptible, but again nothing spectacular. Everything else about the player is, for the money, surprisingly good - especially its midrange - although the CDX is in another league.

As a stand-in source (which it was never intended to be) I think it's okay, perhaps consistent with other cd player-only machines at the £300-500 price point, but again it would be unfair to criticise it entirely in the context of the CDX comparison. My system is obviously revealing flaws, but then it also revealed some flaws in the CDX which is as I'd expect. What really surprised was how relatively minor or insignificant those revealed flaws were - a case of CDX exceeding expectations!

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."