External Scaler with Realta HQV chip
Posted by: Adrian F. on 08 March 2006
Hello sharp eyes 
There are a few nice scalers out there from Faroudja, DVDO, Cinemateq, Lumagen, Crystalio, ect.
But the finest digital picture processing I've seen up to now came from the very bulky top-of-the-line Denon DVD-Player. This was because of the Teranex "Realta HQV" (Hollywood Quality Video) chip from Silicon Optix which combines formerly very expensive studio technology in a relatively affordable 1-chip design.
www.siliconoptix.com
www.hqv.com
I didn't want to buy this Denon player only because of this chip, and since my TV has only 1 digital picture input, I looked for a standalone unit with multiple digital inputs and this technology inside.
The first I found was this Dragonfly box from Algolith. But it has been delayed and pushed back several times for over a year... This looks more like vapor-ware to me.
www.algolith.com
Now I found this Vantage-HD box from the british manufacturer Calibre, which seems to be out now too.
www.calibreuk.com
Never heard of them before. Is this a known and good company? Has somenone seen this thing in action?? Sounds tempting
have a nice time
Adrian
There are a few nice scalers out there from Faroudja, DVDO, Cinemateq, Lumagen, Crystalio, ect.
But the finest digital picture processing I've seen up to now came from the very bulky top-of-the-line Denon DVD-Player. This was because of the Teranex "Realta HQV" (Hollywood Quality Video) chip from Silicon Optix which combines formerly very expensive studio technology in a relatively affordable 1-chip design.
www.siliconoptix.com
www.hqv.com
I didn't want to buy this Denon player only because of this chip, and since my TV has only 1 digital picture input, I looked for a standalone unit with multiple digital inputs and this technology inside.
The first I found was this Dragonfly box from Algolith. But it has been delayed and pushed back several times for over a year... This looks more like vapor-ware to me.
www.algolith.com
Now I found this Vantage-HD box from the british manufacturer Calibre, which seems to be out now too.
www.calibreuk.com
Never heard of them before. Is this a known and good company? Has somenone seen this thing in action?? Sounds tempting
have a nice time
Adrian
Posted on: 10 March 2006 by SimonJ
Posted on: 11 March 2006 by Allan Probin
I wonder if any of these scalers can help with motion blurring as I find this to be easily the most distracting artifact in my video replay system. I'm not quite sure where it originates from, whether it's the MPEG decoding, the de-interlacing, the scaling or the display technology itself (DLP in my case).
It may even be present in the mpeg encoded source material as an inevitable consequence of compression. If this is the case then I guess there is little control over the issue other than choosing the best possible mpeg decoding to minimise the problem as far as possible.
However, if motion blurring is something that gradually creeps in with each successive processing stage then I would hope that the introduction of better video processing technology is something that could help reduce the problem down to a level so low as to be no longer intrusive.
Allan
It may even be present in the mpeg encoded source material as an inevitable consequence of compression. If this is the case then I guess there is little control over the issue other than choosing the best possible mpeg decoding to minimise the problem as far as possible.
However, if motion blurring is something that gradually creeps in with each successive processing stage then I would hope that the introduction of better video processing technology is something that could help reduce the problem down to a level so low as to be no longer intrusive.
Allan
Posted on: 11 March 2006 by Allan Probin
Wow, after posting the above I started digging deeper into the links provided above and came across a reprinted review on the Silicon Optix site for the Yamaha DPX-1300 projector which incorporates the HQV processing chip. The page is here
From the site:
"The Realta HQV converts 1080i video to 1080p using motion-adaptive deinterlacing, which applies interpolation to image areas that are in motion, but merges information from odd and even fields in static image areas to produce more vertical resolution. The 1080p frames are then scaled down to 720p, which retains almost the entire 720 line vertical resolution of the projector in static image areas. In addition, directional interpolation reduces jaggies and improves the resolution of areas in motion. A few previous projectors have had custom 1080i motion-adaptive deinterlacing, but the DPX-1300 performance is quite remarkable. The 1080i image clarity far exceeds what I have seen on other 720p projectors with motion-adaptive deinterlacing. There is no longer a dramatic loss of image sharpness when an object is moving. That is an extremely annoying effect, called resolution pumping or breathing, which occurs when the image resolution suddenly and severely decreases with movement. One way to reduce that annoyance is to partially decrease the resolution on still images so the breathing is not as noticeable. That is not the case with the Realta HQV algorithms. While the specific details of the motion-adaptive deinterlacing are proprietary, it is apparent that the Realta HQV algorithms provide higher resolution in the moving image areas, so there is no need to intentionally decrease the resolution in static areas. It may also be that the Realta’s pixel-based motion-adaptive algorithms are more per-pixel based than others. Whatever the reason for its superior performance, the image resolution and clarity are exceptional, and breathing is seldom intrusive."
"The DPX-1300 1080i motion-adaptive deinterlacing is phenomenal in its ability to maximize clarity and detail in the presence of motion, while avoiding the annoying changes in sharpness and resolution that occur at transitions between motion and still imagery."
Optoma are about to release a projector with a bundled scaler based around the HQV chip. I'm sure the scaler will be available seperately and hopefully to Optoma's tradition of being relatively good value. I'd definitely be interested in seeing this.
Allan
From the site:
"The Realta HQV converts 1080i video to 1080p using motion-adaptive deinterlacing, which applies interpolation to image areas that are in motion, but merges information from odd and even fields in static image areas to produce more vertical resolution. The 1080p frames are then scaled down to 720p, which retains almost the entire 720 line vertical resolution of the projector in static image areas. In addition, directional interpolation reduces jaggies and improves the resolution of areas in motion. A few previous projectors have had custom 1080i motion-adaptive deinterlacing, but the DPX-1300 performance is quite remarkable. The 1080i image clarity far exceeds what I have seen on other 720p projectors with motion-adaptive deinterlacing. There is no longer a dramatic loss of image sharpness when an object is moving. That is an extremely annoying effect, called resolution pumping or breathing, which occurs when the image resolution suddenly and severely decreases with movement. One way to reduce that annoyance is to partially decrease the resolution on still images so the breathing is not as noticeable. That is not the case with the Realta HQV algorithms. While the specific details of the motion-adaptive deinterlacing are proprietary, it is apparent that the Realta HQV algorithms provide higher resolution in the moving image areas, so there is no need to intentionally decrease the resolution in static areas. It may also be that the Realta’s pixel-based motion-adaptive algorithms are more per-pixel based than others. Whatever the reason for its superior performance, the image resolution and clarity are exceptional, and breathing is seldom intrusive."
"The DPX-1300 1080i motion-adaptive deinterlacing is phenomenal in its ability to maximize clarity and detail in the presence of motion, while avoiding the annoying changes in sharpness and resolution that occur at transitions between motion and still imagery."
Optoma are about to release a projector with a bundled scaler based around the HQV chip. I'm sure the scaler will be available seperately and hopefully to Optoma's tradition of being relatively good value. I'd definitely be interested in seeing this.
Allan
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by SimonJ
The best picture I saw this year at Bristol was from this :-
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1409
This also happened to be what the What HiFi demo was using too, but it didn't look anywhere near as good as the Projection Design own room upstairs, but I think half of this was because of the rubbish quality of the HD Robbie Williams clip.
http://www.projectiondesign.com/Default.asp?CatID=1409
This also happened to be what the What HiFi demo was using too, but it didn't look anywhere near as good as the Projection Design own room upstairs, but I think half of this was because of the rubbish quality of the HD Robbie Williams clip.
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by Adrian F.
Simon: I saw in your profile, that you use a DVDO iScan VP30. How pleased are you with it? It's more in the price range of the Cinemateq Picture Optimiser Plus series.
The Crystalio II looks very complete feature wise, even with multiple HD-SDI, FireWire and Harddisk. But it's in another price league - even more expensive than this Calibre Vantage-HD and uses a different technology: VXP by Gennum.
Would be interesting, to have a side by side shootout vs. the HQV by Realta with a full-HD device! Lumagen seems to put out a new Radiance XD model with HQV which could be more in that league... Their Vision series is about the same price range with the Crystalio I models.
Allan: The old analogue stereo principles still work with digital homecinema. Start at the beginning, source first, rubbish in - rubbish out. It's hard to correct later, what has been done wrong earlier... The MPEG encoding quality and bit-rate varies from DVD to DVD (e.g. Superbit DVD). These things will keep us testing and trying for the next few years.
I remember having read an interview with Yves Faroudja after he sold Faroudja Labs. (He developped the standards setting DCDI deinterlacing technology, now found in many devices.) He thinks that interlacing is a bad mistake and that you just can't deinterlace a picture properly. Ouch! And that from someone who spent years to invent something to do just that...
So 1080p capability is important for new devices, even if it's not an official standard. Up to now they do 720p or 1080i. Then you have to choose from one compromise or the other.
After all, it's just a bandwith capacity problem! But in our age, "cheap" seems to be more important to the masses than "quality".
The Crystalio II looks very complete feature wise, even with multiple HD-SDI, FireWire and Harddisk. But it's in another price league - even more expensive than this Calibre Vantage-HD and uses a different technology: VXP by Gennum.
Would be interesting, to have a side by side shootout vs. the HQV by Realta with a full-HD device! Lumagen seems to put out a new Radiance XD model with HQV which could be more in that league... Their Vision series is about the same price range with the Crystalio I models.
Allan: The old analogue stereo principles still work with digital homecinema. Start at the beginning, source first, rubbish in - rubbish out. It's hard to correct later, what has been done wrong earlier... The MPEG encoding quality and bit-rate varies from DVD to DVD (e.g. Superbit DVD). These things will keep us testing and trying for the next few years.
I remember having read an interview with Yves Faroudja after he sold Faroudja Labs. (He developped the standards setting DCDI deinterlacing technology, now found in many devices.) He thinks that interlacing is a bad mistake and that you just can't deinterlace a picture properly. Ouch! And that from someone who spent years to invent something to do just that...
So 1080p capability is important for new devices, even if it's not an official standard. Up to now they do 720p or 1080i. Then you have to choose from one compromise or the other.
After all, it's just a bandwith capacity problem! But in our age, "cheap" seems to be more important to the masses than "quality".
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by SimonJ
quote:Originally posted by Adrian Frauchiger:
Simon: I saw in your profile, that you use a DVDO iScan VP30. How pleased are you with it? It's more in the price range of the Cinemateq Picture Optimiser Plus series.
The Crystalio II looks very complete feature wise, even with multiple HD-SDI, FireWire and Harddisk. But it's in another price league - even more expensive than this Calibre Vantage-HD and uses a different technology: VXP by Gennum.
Would be interesting, to have a side by side shootout vs. the HQV by Realta with a full-HD device! Lumagen seems to put out a new Radiance XD model with HQV which could be more in that league... Their Vision series is about the same price range with the Crystalio I models.
Very, I just got it to replace my HD+, it's pretty much similar to my HD+ with a few extra niceties like analogue audio input. The video performance is also slightly better, but not by miles. I have no use for the extra HDMI inputs as it would mean 720p or 1080i into my screen due to not being able to break the HDCP chain. Keeping the video analogue between scaler and plasma means I can output native 1:1 pixel mapping to my plasma is much better quality wise.
I think the next generation of motion adaptive scaler will be the muts nuts and the Bristol show confirmed this. I was thinking of waiting for them rather than going for the VP30, but I thought I'd wait for them to settle in first and the prices to start becoming a bit more realistic/justifiable so maybe next year!?!
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by Allan Probin
Simon,
The ProjectionDesign projectors are very nice. I havn't seen the model three in action but I saw the model two at the Manchester show a couple of months ago and was very impressed. ProjectionDesign strike me as being the Naim Audio of the projection world. They are a relatively small company, enthusiastic about what they do and from what I've heard are very approachable and customer focussed.
Regarding Gennum / HQV based video processors, the Vantage HD doesn't look too badly priced and appears to be shipping. I noticed from Calibre's web site that they are based in Bradford. That's not too far from here, maybe an hour or so's drive. As it's unlikely I'll be able to get a dem of one of these things in this part of the country I might try and arrange a visit.
Allan
The ProjectionDesign projectors are very nice. I havn't seen the model three in action but I saw the model two at the Manchester show a couple of months ago and was very impressed. ProjectionDesign strike me as being the Naim Audio of the projection world. They are a relatively small company, enthusiastic about what they do and from what I've heard are very approachable and customer focussed.
Regarding Gennum / HQV based video processors, the Vantage HD doesn't look too badly priced and appears to be shipping. I noticed from Calibre's web site that they are based in Bradford. That's not too far from here, maybe an hour or so's drive. As it's unlikely I'll be able to get a dem of one of these things in this part of the country I might try and arrange a visit.
Allan
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by SimonJ
Yes, I noticed the address when I looked at their website earlier. Are they a UK firm with an American branch or the other way around? I'm sure if they have actualy UK presence then you could maybe get hold of one quite easily on a home demo/30 day sale or return deal.
This maybe an interesting read to you if you haven't already found it yourself.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=649108
This maybe an interesting read to you if you haven't already found it yourself.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=649108
Posted on: 12 March 2006 by Allan Probin
Simon,
I'm fairly sure they are a UK based firm. Earlier today I read through the thread you linked to and on several occasions it mentions that shipping is coming from the UK. Other than the HDMI compatibility issues (which appear to be down to HDMI implementation in some players) the reports look very positive.
Allan
I'm fairly sure they are a UK based firm. Earlier today I read through the thread you linked to and on several occasions it mentions that shipping is coming from the UK. Other than the HDMI compatibility issues (which appear to be down to HDMI implementation in some players) the reports look very positive.
Allan