Source first........? maybe not !??

Posted by: ricardo on 01 July 2003

Hello,

Well, after some time, various listens, forum posting readings and demo's i did upgrade the amp in my sistem from a Nait5

New - CD5 / 282 / FC2 / 200 / Intro2's.

Ok, i know that the general perception (in this forum) seems to be improve the CD player first before anything else. But i'm not so sure!

After reading some interesting postings, and importantly listening to alternatives, i am amazed at what a transformation the new pre / power arrangement has given the CD5. I have had the new amps for a week and a half and they are settling in very nicely, and the livelier, fuller and listenability of the music i now hear is spectacular. There's so much that i haven't really heard before, that it's like really listening to the music for the first time.

I appreciate that an amp can only amplify that information it gets (and therfore there of course would be an improvement with a CDX2), but if i wasn't getting the best out of the CD5 with the nait, how would get the best out of a CDX2 ??

The new amps have given the CD5 a new lease of life, that i think will keep going for some considerable time to come. Surely that has to make the CD5 good value for money ? If on the other hand, i'd got the CDX2, how quickly would i be thinking "i wonder how much better this would sound with improved amps"? i really do feel that it would be a lot sooner than the choice i've made.

The nac282 + nap200 is a teriffic combination that provides music that just keeps me captivated. The detail and deftness of the music is matched by the weightier lower frequencies that leand a much fuller overall sound.

I'm sure that everyone will have different opinions, but personally i think that "source first" need not be a golden rule.

ricardo
Posted on: 01 July 2003 by Bob Shedlock
I think you've done "source first" --- the CD5 is a great player. now, cap it. Or at least you have that improvement to look to in the future
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Mike Hanson
Different parts of the system give different results. For example, if you want more volume, the most productive solution is probably increasing the size of your power amp. Yes, improving the source and pre-amp will also help (by lowering distortion, etc.), but it's not the most expedient route to increased volume.

If, however, you want improved musicality, then it's almost always better to improve the source (assuming that your amplification and speakers don't get too far behind). For example, I think CDS2/Nait is just plain silly, and you would get far better results from something like CDX/XPS/102/Hi/140.

Implying that you should keep upgrading the downstream until you hear every ounce of performance from the source is silly. You end up amplifying substandard performance, when even lesser amplification is capable of illustrating changes in the source.

For example, my office system has a Cambridge CD6 (an OK source, but much less than the CD5) into 102/SNAPS2/110/RoydMerlin. If I change from the Cambridge to a better player like CDX or CDS2/XPS, the improvements are readily apparent and very enjoyable. I haven't upgraded the player, though, because I want the office system to play background music. I've found that a better player takes too much of my attention from my work. Also, this system is used in my Project Studio, so the improved amplification aids that task.

Another example: my main system is CDS2/XPS/52/Super/2*135/RoydAlbion. The weakest link is currently the speakers, and if I upgrade anything, it will be those. However, I held onto them until now, because they had no problem showing the differences from one upgrade to the next in the rest of the system, and always sounded sufficiently capable.

The moral of the story is don't waste your money upgrading the downstream, if the upstream is not up to it. Instead, it's best to have a top-down, "inverted pyramid" approach. Ensure that the source is the best component in the system, but don't let anything downstream get too far behind. Once you've maximized the source, you can begin maximizing each element down the chain. Any other approach gets you less music for your money, which doesn't make much sense for most people.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Bob Shedlock
"If, however, you want improved musicality, then it's almost always better to improve the source--"

I agree! "musicality" is why I even have a system.

"--- I think CDS2/Nait is just plain silly, and you would get far better results from something like CDX/XPS102/Hi/140."

I disagree. I run a CDX2/Nait5/Hi/Neat Petitie III on Kudos. The difference between the above and the 82/super/250/Ninkas/stone bases is nowhere near the price difference. I'm a very strong proponent of the CD5/Hi and think it is equal to the value difference (re: the CDX2) to the above system.

I know that small differences can be very important. The aforementioned systems "small differences" are practically inconsequential, especially in light of the cash outlay. BTW, I've yet to have anyone over who picks the "bigger" system as "more musically satisfying". Satisfied is satisfied. Being sucked into the listening experience is not a part-way state of being.

The CD5/Hi is a tremendous front end!
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Arun Mehan
Bob,

I think you just hit the point that I was going to make. The CD5 is such a better player than its predecessors that source first principles can be thrown right out the window! Adding a *cap just makes it that much better.

I prefer the balanced approach myself and have to agree with Mike regarding a CDSII into a Nait5. Upgrading the amp (or preamp) to attain certain qualities in a system would make more sense to me than upgrading the CD5 to a CDX or higher. But that's just my opinion Smile
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Bob Shedlock
Arun, opinions are the one thing I try never to argue about in hi fi. One's reaction to music and their system is a mostly emotive one and defies logical disection.
Now, having said that, my experience (as opposed to my opinion) is that balance is a matter of opinion! Smile
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Colin Ackerman
Hi Ricardo

I think you have done the right thing, upgrading the pre amp gets the best possible performance out of your CD player.
If you match a CDX2 with a 112 you are only running the CD player at 50%.

Colin.
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Nuno Baptista
I´ve got a Nait 5.I´m thinking to buy a Nap 150 and change my amplifier in a pre:But I don´t know yet because I believe source first argue.I mean I will have to trade my cd 5 for a CDX
Buy a Hi cap for your cd 5

MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2
Posted on: 02 July 2003 by Jean-Marc
Source first.......? YES!

The other night, I plugged my CDS2 into a simple cheap stereo radio/cassette combo. While obviously no way up to the 52/SC/250 class, I was astonished by the music coming out from the £50 gear, so much so that I listening to almost all the CD!
Yes, source first is not a legend, it works.

my 2 cents
Jean-Marc