About the british taste in orchestras

'The Proms' has a good selection of international orchestras.

Some US. orchestras and conductors have had problems with the festival though, because (almost) every performance is broadcast by BBC radio, and also quite a few performances on TV too.

These orchestras have declined to play because they either have contracts of recording labels that this would break, or prefer to not have their performances easily recorded for free.

As 'The Proms' is such a major part of the classical music year here in the UK, this must have a knock on effect with sales and exposure in this market.

Other orchestras from the rest of the world have not been reported to have such objections.

Pity, I would love to see Michael Tilson Thomas conduct over here, or perhaps even lead with the piano on some Gerschwin.

Mike,

I have no preference for British Orchestras but I do prefer all things European whether that be Classical Recordings, European Jazz, Holidays, Cars, Architecture, Culture, Food, Hi-Fi and so on.

I also like a lot American things like the New York Jazz scene and Bruce Springsteen

At the end of the day, there are a huge number of well recorded classical CD's released in Europe and a load of great labels - EMI, DG, Decca, ECM, Harmonia Mundi and they all tend to focus on the European scene mostly.

I like this one a lot, but Runnicles is a Jock after all

I would have thought simple curiosity would motivate a collector to try the great American orchestras on recordings, just as curiosity has compelled me to buy recordings of the great European orchestras.

I am fascinated by the different characteristic sounds that great orchestras and their halls exhibit, even on recordings.

The only time I have heard a great European orchestra in person was in Carnigie Hall, Boulez and the LPO doing The Rite of Spring, and it was transformative.

For the record, my favorites include the Concertgebouw, Berlin, the LPO, Vienna, Chicago, New York, Montreal, Cleveland, Boston and Los Angeles. Even on recordings, these orchestras have a distinctive sound.

They should have different personalities being so complex, how awful if they all sounded the same.

I never heard a bad LA Phil with Salonen concert, I know some over the pond think his tours were not as deep or lush, especially when he did the Tristan Project, but I was bowled over many times. He's going to premier something next year here. He sure has a clean articulate sound.

Mike, I think that you're being over protective! Speaking for myself, I imagine that my favoured orchestra is based in Vienna, conducted by Boehm, Abbado, Solti, Kleiber and many others. But I have a fair smattering of orchestras based in Berlin, Amsterdam, London and even Manchester.

Then there are wonderful recordings under Reiner and Solti in Chicago, Szell in Cleveland, Munch in Boston, and Dorati in Minnesota.

The most characterful sound, however, comes from Leningrad (as was) under Mravinsky: he was remarkable!

Graham

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
The most characterful sound, however, comes from Leningrad (as was) under Mravinsky: he was remarkable!

Graham

The character of the Leningrad sound is too imprecise for my taste, and the intonation can be shaky.

Of course, most of what we have from Leningrad under Mravinsky is 'live', and the results are patchy. But the DG studio recordings of Tchaikovsky (mono and stereo) could never be bettered.

Graham

I wonder, if you did blindfold tests how many listeners, even many musicians, could distinguish whether an orchestra was European or American, let alone an individual orchestra.

quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Of course, most of what we have from Leningrad under Mravinsky is 'live', and the results are patchy. But the DG studio recordings of Tchaikovsky (mono and stereo) could never be bettered.

Graham

What he said - although some of the stuff on Μелодияa is pretty electric

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
I wonder, if you did blindfold tests how many listeners, even many musicians, could distinguish whether an orchestra was European or American, let alone an individual orchestra.

That may be right, but you could never mistake the old Leningrad Philharmonic: their brass gives me shivers whenever I hear them play.

And I think that I'd have a fair shout between the superb orchestras of Berlin, Amsterdam and Vienna. Probably entirely wrong, of course!

quote:

Originally posted by Oldnslow:
I wonder, if you did blindfold tests how many listeners, even many musicians, could distinguish whether an orchestra was European or American, let alone an individual orchestra.

The best I've been able to do is if I looked up and learned the themes in our dictionary, studied the score for at least an hour, and listened to a recording at least 10 times, then, for up to a year, I would recognize that recording from any snippet it contained, at least most of the times.

So it needs a constant attention to remember that sort of thing, and it needs continuous attention.

Is it worth it?

I am trying one group of works for a year, and will decide then.

For the record, up till now it has breathed more life into the music.

I am favorably inclined to continue :-)

A very curious thing is happening when I take the trouble to pick some music, learn it's themes, study it's score and give it repeated listening.

When I listen "through" a score, the performance disappears until something comes that is unexpected. In other words, the mental image of the score disagrees with what you heard.

Sometimes this is ignorance, which requires investigation. Other times, mistakes were made or the replay failed. My replay preserves tempo, meter, and pitch through the overtones, and articulates cleanly. It never breaks my concentration.

Interruptions are either learning experiences or mistakes.

But this is what strikes me. When listening "through" a score, the performance disappears. There are CDs like that. I don't care how it might have been edited, it is a miraculous and wonderful thing to behold :-)

In my mind at least, several orchestras in my collection have very different sonic attributes that are distinctive. I have no idea of what any of them sound like in person, only on my system. But still a certain familiarity has grown with continued listening.

Hum. Listening "through" a score makes the performers disappear ...