Is digital out from Blu Ray to nVi Dolby DTS or Dolby DTS HD?

Posted by: Consciousmess on 17 February 2010

Hi all,

Last night, for the first time, I connected my Blu Ray player to my nVi via one of its digital connections..... and the sound was really good - better (apparently) than any DVD I have played straight from the nVi and my Blu Ray player only cost me 250 over a year ago!

I know perception is subjective and not objective, but the nVi lit up "DTS" as opposed to "3/2.1" which it often does when receiving encoded material. I've had a standard DVD light up this DTS sign before, but now this prompts me to ask a question as Blu Ray encodes in DTS HD:

Is what I'm hearing the DTS HD that Blu Ray films are encoded in, or does the nVi scale this down to its ability of 5.1? The academic analogy I use is equivalent to feeding a NAC152 XS + NAP155 XS with a CD555....

Thanks for your comments.

Jon
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Roy Donaldson
Your BluRay will have a DTS HD encode on it. When sending this out a normal digital feed (either coax, or optical), the BluRay player will downmix this to 1.5Mbps DTS.

To output DTS HD, this needs to be transmitted over an HDMI lead.

Cheers,
Roy.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Jay
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
Is what I'm hearing the DTS HD that Blu Ray films are encoded in, or does the nVi scale this down to its ability of 5.1?


Hi Jon

No, sorry you're not hearing HD - you'll only get that if you use the analogue outputs into the nVi (assuming it has analogue inuts?).

To output sounds over optical/coax from a Blu Ray your player needs to downmix it. I believe (and I could be wrong) that this is called core DTS - regardless it's at a lower bit rate than DTS HD.

Jay
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by tonym
quote:
Originally posted by Jay:


No, sorry you're not hearing HD - you'll only get that if you use the analogue outputs into the nVi (assuming it has analogue inuts?).

To output sounds over optical/coax from a Blu Ray your player needs to downmix it. I believe (and I could be wrong) that this is called core DTS - regardless it's at a lower bit rate than DTS HD.

Jay


Although not true HD sound, nevertheless the 'core" dts output from a BluRay player via its SP/DIF output is at maximum rate - unlike that for DVD - so it can sound considerably better than the latter.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Consciousmess
Do you know that is curious - thanks Tony, Jay and Roy.

I guess when it comes to processing capabilities (because I use the nVi), the best audio presented in 5.1 is the digital out from the BluRay into it??

If I wanted to hear DTS HD I would need a much more expensive processor suited for this than what I have with the nVi??

Cheers,

Jon
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Frank Abela
Most AV receivers above £400 can decode full DTS-HD via an HDMI input from your BD player. However, most AV receivers are nowhere near as good as an nVi...
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by garyi
DTS always sounds great.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by winkyincanada
My Blu-ray sound (HDMI to the TV then SPDIF Toslink to the SuperNait DAC) is great. Don't know the technical details, but I'm happy.
Posted on: 17 February 2010 by Vaughn3D
Same here, Cambridge bluray player into the Supernait dac via coax. This is also used as my transport for CDs.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by Consciousmess
quote:
My Blu-ray sound (HDMI to the TV then SPDIF Toslink to the SuperNait DAC) is great. Don't know the technical details, but I'm happy.


You've given me an idea, Winky........

If I connected my Blu Ray to my TV via HDMI - which of course is essential to see the HD movie - and then go from the digital out of my TV (optical) to the nVi, does that give me DTS HD?

Part of me suspects not, but on the other hand if the data coming out of the Blu Ray has to be HDMI for it to be DTS HD, it would go to the TV the way it should and the TV doesn't interfere by streaming it straight to the optical out, for which the nVi can process.....

Does my logic make any sense?

Many thanks,

Jon
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by Squawk Ident
No. HD sound can only be processed via hdmi, optical or coaxial cables ar limited to 1,5mbps. And: the n-Vi cannot decode HD-formats.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by tonym
The part of you that suspects not is correct I'm afraid Jon.

In your scenario the TV itself would not be capable of "seeing" the HD sound format anyway, and any part of the chain that uses SP/DIF whether optical or co-ax will not be capable of passing sufficient bandwidth for the HD sound formats.

There are only two options for HD BluRay sound - either via HDMI into a compatible multichannel processor or having a BluRay player with multiple analogue outputs that decodes the HD formats internally.

HD sound is very good indeed but you'll only realise the extra sound quality if you have a sufficiently capable amp/speaker setup.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by zorba
Correct me if I am wrong, if your bluray player can decode internally and has analogue outs you could instruct it to send 2.1 hd audio into the stereo analogue input of the n-Vi which should give you hd audio but stereo only.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
quote:
My Blu-ray sound (HDMI to the TV then SPDIF Toslink to the SuperNait DAC) is great. Don't know the technical details, but I'm happy.


You've given me an idea, Winky........

If I connected my Blu Ray to my TV via HDMI - which of course is essential to see the HD movie - and then go from the digital out of my TV (optical) to the nVi, does that give me DTS HD?

Part of me suspects not, but on the other hand if the data coming out of the Blu Ray has to be HDMI for it to be DTS HD, it would go to the TV the way it should and the TV doesn't interfere by streaming it straight to the optical out, for which the nVi can process.....

Does my logic make any sense?

Many thanks,

Jon


It might depend on your TV, Jon. I don't know anything about the audio standards and how my Blu-ray and TV handle them.

I chose to go via the TV so I wouldn't have to switch the amp when changing video sources. Unfortunately, neither my cable box nor all-region DVD player puts out a digital signal that my SuperNait can understand (even going via my TV). I am using analogue for those sources.
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by Consciousmess
Do you know what though, Winky, what you do has just solved a problem that I was facing...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all my HDMI connections to the TV (for which I also each connecto to the nVi), could all come just from the digital out of the TV and therefore I would experience each of their 5.1 encoding??

These connections are Sky HD, Blu Ray, HDDVD, Xbox - all this could come straight from the TV digital out. I would then have the iPod docking station digitally connected straight to the nVi and I could incorporate my DVD Recorder as well!

Many thanks - indirectly!

Jon
Posted on: 18 February 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
Do you know what though, Winky, what you do has just solved a problem that I was facing...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all my HDMI connections to the TV (for which I also each connecto to the nVi), could all come just from the digital out of the TV and therefore I would experience each of their 5.1 encoding??

These connections are Sky HD, Blu Ray, HDDVD, Xbox - all this could come straight from the TV digital out. I would then have the iPod docking station digitally connected straight to the nVi and I could incorporate my DVD Recorder as well!

Many thanks - indirectly!

Jon


It is one reason why modern TVs have digital output for sound - to simplify connection to audio systems that don't incorporate video switching (i.e. where you select your source with the TV). What I can't speak to is how the TV handles and passes on the myriad of different audio codecs. My TV won't convert my cable box digital to something my SuperNait understands, but it will convert my Bluray audio. With DVDs on my multi-region player, it varies according to the disc (some work, some don't), but I end up using analogue outputs for all discs, just simplfy things.

All this AV stuff makes my head hurt. For me it works, or it doesn't. Good luck with it.
Posted on: 27 February 2010 by Consciousmess
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
Do you know what though, Winky, what you do has just solved a problem that I was facing...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all my HDMI connections to the TV (for which I also each connecto to the nVi), could all come just from the digital out of the TV and therefore I would experience each of their 5.1 encoding??

These connections are Sky HD, Blu Ray, HDDVD, Xbox - all this could come straight from the TV digital out. I would then have the iPod docking station digitally connected straight to the nVi and I could incorporate my DVD Recorder as well!

Many thanks - indirectly!

Jon


It is one reason why modern TVs have digital output for sound - to simplify connection to audio systems that don't incorporate video switching (i.e. where you select your source with the TV). What I can't speak to is how the TV handles and passes on the myriad of different audio codecs. My TV won't convert my cable box digital to something my SuperNait understands, but it will convert my Bluray audio. With DVDs on my multi-region player, it varies according to the disc (some work, some don't), but I end up using analogue outputs for all discs, just simplfy things.

All this AV stuff makes my head hurt. For me it works, or it doesn't. Good luck with it.


Do you know what, Winky, I did connect all the appliances to the TV and used the TV digitial out.......

....and I see what you mean about different "audio codecs". This was an alien term to me, but by inference, I understand as the TV just outputs all of Sky HD from 5.1 to 2.1.

That is a shame of course, so I suspect the TV just converts all audio signals to 2.1!

Not to worry as for my needs I can get everything working.

_____________________________

Jon,
Just move the n/vi on and get a Naim system and a good AV amp with a few HDMI and Digital sockets and use the unity gain.
Job done.
Stu

_________________________________


Hi Stu,

Something along those lines I've been considering as getting a 282 and a 250.2 - while retaining the nVi and using unity gain - will give me much better sound.

I've moved on from my audiophile quest of 2 channel stereo and I reckon I'll be well settled once I've got this 5.1 system setup. I say this but still like the Naim facility of keeping the upgrade door open so the book never closes.....!!

Regards,

Jon
Posted on: 01 March 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by Consciousmess:
.....and I reckon I'll be well settled once I've got this 5.1 system setup....

Regards,

Jon


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