Series 5 with Nap250

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Stumble on a used nap250 at around $1000 pounds, 5+yrs old.

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I know of a guy who paid £1000 ($1500) for a ten-year-old 250 which was basically knackered...


The Nap 250 isn't really designed to work with Series 5 components, but at the price of $1000, it may be worth giving it a try. A second-hand Hi-cap would come in useful to drive your 112, which would be better value than a new Flatcap 2.

If I were in your position, I'd be left wondering if I could get a CDX and an 82 to make that 250 worthwhile...

I once heard a 250 driven by a CDX/102/Hi, and the 102 preamp was revealed as too harsh and strident by the 250 - it really sounded awful!

However, the new 5 series stuff is a little smoother, so it may yet work.

I strongly suggest that you hear it in your system before you buy it, otherwise you may part with your cash only to end up crying in your beer.

Regards,

Steve.

The proof of the pudding...

Mr Toy

The person is question actually paid £1100.00 (yes it's true)for a 10 year old totally shagged out 250.

What is even more sad, is that he raved how good it was because it was plonked on Mana. His Missus walked out of the room in disgust at the crap sound but he was orgasmic because it was on Mana.
It just shows how these bloody Mana philes have the ability to think that even a flatulent frog would sound good, providing of course......It's on Mana.

This diptick still dishes out advice on Hifi, so chaps be warned.....there are some total plonkers out there who are only to keen to offer advice.

Regards

Mick.....still laughing at the memory of that little episode.

Hakan's right - get a PSU for your CD5 (or get a CDX).

The 250 will mullet-out your system.

Don't go near the Dyn's - unless you prefer that kind of sound. 14's are beyond the reach of your system in it's current state. Source first.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

If the 150 goes loud enough with your speakers, I can assure you it is not responsible for the lack of bass. A 250 will go deeper and is better controlled, but would be inappropriate in your system.

A Flatcap2 will enhance both the 112 and 150, but may not give you all you want. I'd compare this with a Hicap for just the CD5, although it's an expensive option.

A hicap on the 112 and CD5 will transform your system, at a hefty price. Hunt around second-hand though and you may be able to pick up a bargain.

A.

The system you have with a 250 may be completely reasonable. It is often difficult on this forum for any argument that is not "source first" to have any credibility.

I can assure you however that with my system which is some ways was a predecessor to yours that Graham's HiFi, which I am informed is one of the leading suppliers of Naim and HiFi kit and a generally well respected dealer suggested as an upgrade for my system which was at the time

Cd3.5/92r/90/credos

a switch in the power amp from a 90 to a 180. Whilst this is not the same as going from your power amp to a 250, the principle of a change in the power amp remains the same.

There has become an almost instant reaction to questions such as yours that the upgrade to go for should be a CDX and I can assure you that if you get a CDX and come back 6 months or a year later asking for advice on another upgrade that, unless new products have hit the market, the same people will often suggest that the best upgrade would still not be to change any other component but upgrade the cd player still further by adding an xps.

The majority view on the forum may not be the view of your own hifi dealer or indeed of yourself if you get a chance to listen to the alternatives.

Regards

Belsizepark

Have you tried the Flat-Cap2? It really does do wonders for the 5-series. Your next step should be a CDX, at which time you can change the wiring so the Flat-Cap2 gives its primary supply to the 112 rather than the CD player. This will be a HUGE step forward.

If you decide you really want the 250, then you have to get a Hi-Cap or Flat-Cap2 for the 112. I suggest that you start with the Flat-Cap2, and then decide if you need more.

Be careful. Upgraditis is a dangerous thing. I started with a 3.5/Flat/102/140, which sounded good but didn't completely satisfy me. I didn't shake that expensive attitude until I hit CDS2/52/2*135.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

[This message was edited by Mike Hanson on FRIDAY 19 July 2002 at 14:16.]

and if that doesn't scratch your itch perhaps a 250 will. You'll need a power supply with a 250 anyway. I do agree that a used hicap is better than an FC2, and I have both. I feel the statement regarding incompatibility because the 250's aren't designed to work series 5 is total trash.
IF you plan on upgrading as time goes on, "unbalancing" your system because of a good deal on a piece is solid logic. I'd be very careful to make sure your disatisfaction doesn't lie with a less than optimum set-up/room placement before I spent money. I bought my 250 because it was a good opportunity price wise.
I used a 250 with a 112/hicap and liked it just fine. The 250 showed itself to be a good match and had demonstrably better control of lower frequencies, yada yada yada.
Then, I saw this unbelievable deal on an 18 month old '82, and gee, since I already had the hicap --
and I had NO plans to upgrade! Now, all I need is an absurdly good deal on a super and I can move the hi to the phono and find another hi for the cdp -------

The best way to find out is to try it yourself and trust your own judgement. I've been reading the forum quite a bit, and at times, the advice is really good - at the same time, I find that in many occasions, when asking a question, the answer consistently is "upgrade to CDX" - depending of course where you're coming from.

I spent some time in trying to understand the flat- versus round-earth discussion, as well as PRAT related things. In one of the threads - can't remember which one - it was stated that source first is the basis for PRAT, even with less than good speakers. I don't believe that for a second. No matter how good the source is, as with any chain, it's as strong as the weakest link. Need to keep things balanced though. I'd say that less than decent speakers with top-electronics is also a mullet system.

I am also looking at getting a bit more bass from my system as I can hear it certainly has the potential to do more than it is doing now. My system is the same as yours, except that I have the FC2 powering both the 112 and the CD 5. I never tried it without so it's difficult to comment on the difference.

As I happen to like the system as it is today where the electronics are concerned, I am looking at changing the speakers to see what difference they make. And guess what, the answer is: a helluva lot. These guys ultimately have to transform all that current into moving air. Some can do that better than others, and one does it differently than another. So, in my view this is part of the chain.

Surely, I would get the advice to trash the CD5 and upgrade to CDX or better instead of changing speakers. But I don't want to. I am curious as to see what I can get out of the current system, which by all standards can be defined as pretty decent. Even though others may think not

You have to be careful not to become biased by opinions when trying alternatives, though. Your own judgement is all that counts at the end of the day; you have to live with the system, others don't.

Arthur

Hi,

I have tested CD5/72/Hi-cap/250/NacA5/SBL

It sounded awful, the 5-series have a new sound that doesn't fit in with old Naim sound. Don't buy the 250.

When I listened to CD5/Flatcap2/Nait5/NacA5/Rega Jura. Sounded better than the previous setup.

I have heard Nait5 as Preamp with 250, and it sounded Ok, I think. But it doesn't fit in at 100% Real Naim.




/ J

"I have tested CD5/72/Hi-cap/250/NacA5/SBL

It sounded awful, the 5-series have a new sound that doesn't fit in with old Naim sound. Don't buy the 250".

Jonas

Do you not think that the above observation is due to the totally mulleted system rather than the 'series 5' sound. To my ears the above system would have been much worse had the CD5 been replaced with a 3 or 3.5.

The CD5 is a $2250 CD player, for crying out loud! At that price, it had better be damned good (and it is).

I bought my first Naim with a money back guarantee, because it was supposed to be so critical of sources. I had a Philips CD-880 and an LP12/val/Akito/Shure V15V. The 62/140 made great music with those sources. The CD-880 sounded far better through a 72/hi/140 than through a 62/hi/140. The 72 was for a while Naim's top preamp; it is simply not outclassed by a 250.

I think I would get a lot more out of the system jonas_bj dissed than he did, but to attribute jonas' dissatisfaction to mulleting is beyond reason.

Phil

The CD5 is a good player, however; it is not suited to the 72/hicap/250/sbl's because they highlight its limitations.

A CDX or secondhand CD2 is the minimum recommendation for this kind of kit.

I had a CD3 on loan whilst I had the CD2 on order and it was no match for 72/hicap/250/sbl's.

the original question was about:
112/150/CD5/NACA5/Totem 1 and whether NAP250 makes sense.

We're now at:
72/hicap/250/sbl's which is pretty far from the initial question I'd reckon.

So, what should "jho" do with this? Replace his entire system? Get real...

Arthur

Member posted MONDAY 22 July 2002 18:34

I had a CD3 on loan whilst I had the CD2 on order and it was no match for 72/hicap/250/sbl's.
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My bet is that listeners get better music with CD3/72/hi/250 than with CD3/62/140. Maybe I'm jaded since I expect so little from CD, but this ideology of the 250 'requiring' a CD2 'or better' is probably not supported by any empirical evidence.

Sure, you're usually better off improving source before the amp or speakers, but that's different from saying a better amp or speakers makes the sound worse!

Phil

jho,

Why start another thread with the same question as this one ?

Peter

As i am quite new to this forum, i do apologise. i was hoping to get more help cause i still cannot decide. Thanks

Look at Arthur's observation, Peter. People were talking about types of electronics jho had not remotely asked about.

Jho: there's all kinds of Naim gear circulating on the s/h/ market. There's no need to get distracted by this NAP250, which would not be the logical thing to add to your system.

The safer course would be adding a FC2 or a Hi-Cap. Or two - one for the pre and one for the CD5. If you want to know more about this option, check the search box. There's been tons of discussions of the benefits of adding *Caps to your gear.

Herman

Thanks herm, now i know where to find

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Originally posted by herm:
Look at Arthur's observation, Peter. People were talking about types of electronics jho had not remotely asked about.

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The safer course would be adding a FC2 or a Hi-Cap. Or two - one for the pre and one for the CD5. If you want to know more about this option, check the search box. There's been tons of discussions of the benefits of adding *Caps to your gear.

Herman

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Herman,

Ok, I was a tad tetchy, and on reviewing the responses I see that there was no succinct response. jho, I apologise if I snapped at you. I second Herman's summary

Peter

its ok peter, i understand, I still cannot decide should i invest on a s/h 250.

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Originally posted by jho:
its ok peter, i understand, I still cannot decide should i invest on a s/h 250.

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You know, your original question almost answers itself. The 250 doesn't have a pre-amp power supply. So, if you buy it, you have to have a power supply ... or maybe you don't, perhaps you can continue to use the 150 to power the 112, and make a direct connection between the 112 and the 250, hmmm, I don't know, you'd have to study the output possibilities on the 112. Conventionally, you would need to connect the 112 via a 'cap to the 250. Logically, a 'cap would be the first purchase. HiCaps cost roughly 350-500GBP depending on vintage and are actually harder to find than 250s. There will always be, in my view, used 250 opportunities.

I have a Hicap powering the preamp section of my Nait 5. It's a very worthwhile improvement, in terms of solidity and cohesion. It kind of makes the Nait 5's performance envelope bigger without changing its character.

Peter

jho,

Have heard the/a 250? That's the only way you're gonna know.

But you could start with a hicap, which will be a very fine addition to your system.

Phil