Surface Noise

Dear Karl,

There were always poor pressings, and pristine ones. What is galling is that nowadys the LP is definitely a premium niche product rather than the mainstream carrier. So the proportion of duff pressings should indeed be much smaller, given the small production runs and high prices ...

It is exactly because of poor pressings and relative lack of resistance to wearing out that prompted me to swing away from LPs in the early nineties.

Of course if I had had a top turntable, arm and cartridge such as can be had now, if for a large amount of money, then I might have had a higher opinions of the LP medium, but in reality the kind of mainstream [and even top end] LP replay at the time was beset by problems of wear and poor pressing quality which by now have largely been addressed, if only since the arrival of CD.

I would never return to LPs now, even though I have recently heard some LP replay which gives CD replay a good run for its money! Super Scoutmaster and Aro on LP 12 with TK Rua, XV1S and Koetsu black, with Supercapped Superline etc. Yes, I suspect that it may be better in many respects than very fine CD replay, but the phenomenal cost of the best cartridges, means that the replay is very expensive per disc played compared to CD, and that is a very real consideration.

The best cartridge I have come across is the Dynavector XV1S. Roughly 3K GBP's worth, and replaceable after one or two years of use, depending how much service it sees! Wonderful, and like running a Bentley - if you have to ask the price of running it ... Not for the average punter perhaps, or me certainly, IMHO.

ATB from George

quote:

There were always poor pressings, and pristine ones. What is galling is that nowadys the LP is definitely a premium niche product rather than the mainstream carrier. So the proportion of duff pressings should indeed be much smaller, given the small production runs and high prices ...

I agree entirely, it would concern me if I were paying high prices (nearly £20) for audiophile LP's, and getting a high percentage of poor pressings. In truth I don't buy many of these as I can't afford them. Most of my vinyl is bought on ebay, I only go for mint copies and I have a large collection already (1500 LP's) which gives me a lot of pleasure.

Regarding your point George on the high cost of running a top cartridge, I think it compares favourably to a top Naim CD player such as the 555. At around 15K how long will it be before it needs a new laser mech and servicing? And in 10 years I doubt CD players will be produced anymore; a quality CD laser mech may be a high end niche replacement part much the same as an exchange high end cartridge.

My (£1750) Shiraz will last 3 1/2 years minimum, and I can get it fully repaired for about £700 (new cantilever, stylus and coil) at EMT. Not a bad return IMO for a couple of hours listening per night.

regards,
mat

Dear Mat,

There is no way that I would buy any expensive CD player now - even if I could afford it - as when the mechs are all gone it will not matter how much it cost initiallly - tens, hundreds, or thousands - it will be unserviceable eventually.

The future is in servers, with backed up HD storage as far as I can see, and that is the way I am going. there will always be discrete CD and DVD drives to opperate in the computer setting with good extraction softeware.

I wish I could afford to simply get exactly what I want today, but no doubt the experience of doing it on a shoestring will be very helpful in time.

ATB from George

quote:

The future is in servers, with backed up HD storage as far as I can see, and that is the way I am going. there will always be discrete CD and DVD drives to opperate in the computer setting with good extraction softeware.

I wish I could afford to simply get exactly what I want today, but no doubt the experience of doing it on a shoestring will be very helpful in time.

Well I wish you the best of luck with your endeavours George, I will probably try the HD server route at some time in the future myself, in the meantime just enjoy your music.

regards,
mat

Hi

I too have also gone down the MAC/DAC route and have sold my 555. I do not miss it.

However my TT is my passion and indulgence. I can not justify it cost wise but it gives me a reason to leave for work..... I love my XV1s, but figure it will stand me at about £10 -£15 per week (allowing for a 1k trade in value and life of 3yrs). I am willing to pay this.


Cheers Karl

I haven't had any problem 'audiophile' releases over the last few years

Plenty of 'regular' new (and sealed) vinyl comes out of the bag with muck and prints over it however. Whack it on me Okki-Nok tho' and they're fine after. Beats me how they get so filthy between pressing and packing ... No scratches however and only one warped (and replaced) record in recent memory, whereas I remember religiously checking every record in Our Price or wherever twenty years ago and often going through a few to find a flat and clean one.

I have to say I have no problems with surface noise on my own TT. Very occasionaly, if I wind the volume up (what would be unbearably) high for the music, there is sometimes between track surface noise but that's about it and is clearly dependent on the pressing. That said, my TT/cartridge is known to be quiet and to exhibit very low surface noice and I often marvel at how quiet it is.

I went through a phase of a lot of purchases of ebay a few years back and got stacks of LPs, often for a quid or two each with another £1.50 for postage. However I got fed up with the number of LPs described as excellent or NM, arriving in what could only be described as a terminal condition IMO. Plus now there's loads of £4.95 'buy it now' stuff with about £4 for postage and I feel it's just not worth the risk of a tenner each time really (although there are some suppliers who are more reliable e.g. vinyltap). There are a few shops on ebay with plenty of new releases, usually cheaper than diverse/stamford, such as What Records and others and they often have their own web sites now too. Red Spark (what was Vivante) usually falls between the two at being cheaper than the 'show' suppliers but stocking more audiophile stuff than other regular shops too.

quote:

Originally posted by Lark:
Will do Nero,and hope you will too.


Cheers Karl

Well, the Nikki Nokki had a valiant try, but on closer inspection the pressing is covered with dust marks (in the vinyl) and there are a couple of small blisters, which no amount of cleaning would remove, I'm sure.
So that one's going back.
But I'm amazed that something that bad could even get out of the factory - are we being suckered by the 'Audiophile 180gram vinyl' sticker?
Cheers
John

Shame about the collapsing exchange rate as Recordsbymail.com is fantastic for s/h vinyl - Mint really is Mint!

Hi

VPI 16.5 has been pressed into service this afternoon. Very easy to operate and the results are obvious, both visually even with very close inspection and sonically. The surface noise is still there on the problem vinyl, but only in between songs and in very quite passages. Improved to level where I no longer care.

My wife loves a 'bargain' and often buys SH vinyl. The VPI takes these from grotboxes to well loved/used, but acceptable. The music is questionable sometimes, but now they play OK .

All in all bloody good value and it has exceeded my expectations.

Cheers Karl

My solution was to stop playing the vinyl and stick to CD. It doesn't mean I enjoy the music less.

Each to there own Rob and I can see your point. It's just I see my TT as my primary source and never thought my 555 measured up to it. I will also admit that the TT is part of my weekend routine. Early run, a great fresh ground coffee and then a full day of spinning. I really look forward to it. In truth the CD never truly did it for me, I am happier using the MAC/DAC in the short burst of listening I get in the week. Hopefully the VPI will remove the only downside to owning a great TT other than the cost of cart replacements, limited vinyl releases, the cost of vinyl..... Like I said it's a luxury


Cheers Karl

Hi Karl,

As mentioned on the single source thread, I have set up the TT in the office as a headfi rig. I have to say that so far I am not picking up any surface noise. There is something to be said for a less revealing system.

Cheers

Rob

Hi all,

I have found that for some reason, the new vinyl that I have bought is generally much more prone than my "old" vinyl albums to pick up a static charge during playing (so much so that when I change sides, the platter mat on my Rega sticks to the underside of the record!). The result of this is that they attract so much dust that playback does become very noisy, and often I have to interrupt play mid side to remove dust from the stylus (Dynavector 10X5. This never happens when playing my older records.

If anyone has any ideas on how to prevent this (or why this should be), I would be very interested.

Trev.

Static's a problem for me too trev., and you're right - new vinyl's more prone to it.

Static problems can be exacerbated by things like carpets and humidity. The best cure I know, drastic though it may seem, is to use a record-cleaning machine such as Okki-Nokki or in my case a Moth. This more or less eliminates it, I know not why!