What other 4-D CDs are there out there?

The 4-D issues from DG were/are [?] an attempt to get greater phase coherence out of their ultra-multi-microphone approach to recording.

The trouble is that whilst the efforts may make the treated recordings sound better than they might otherwise, nothing will makes them sound as fine as recordings made with a minimal microphone arrangement simply produced, and with the microphone set in just the right place.

It is an irony that tape technology aside, recordings made in the days before multi-microphone-technique became the normal are almost always more convincing on every level from musical balances to coherent Hifi sound-stage etc.

The golden age of recording arguably ended in the early 1960s.

Modern restoration processes often reveal these old recordings as being in no way technically inferior to the more recent efforts, and significantly more naturally and better musically balanced than anything done since.

There is a return to the simpler style of recording with greater attention to getting the recording right without massive post-production work in some cases nowadays, and this is to be welcomed. 4-D is not part of this satisfactory trend.

As ever it is certainly more important to select recordings based the quality of the musical performance than selecting on the basis of recording style ...

ATB from George

PS: The DG 4-D series is quite extensive, but I have no idea if it is still a current series for new issues. I never thought the results were particularly convincing, compared to the quality DG used to get in the 1950s/60s.

go to amazon and look for works by the orpheus chamber orchestra (copland, schoenberg) and ravel/debussy recordings by pierre boulez, also mendelssohn's midsummer night's dream by ozawa/boston
on dgg - these are 4d recordings, and i agree they sound sensational!

i have had problems with the 4d recordings - they "hummed" quite loudly while being played. a mechanical vibration. but i replaced the offending disks and the replacements are fine. probably a manufacturing defect in the disks themselves, on my original cds.

i think these are some of the finest sounding disks ever produced by anyone, and buy them whenever i come across them. nothing recorded before the 1960s even comes close.

if you're really interested, i'll comb the collection and produce a detailed list for you. i think i have 18-24 4d recordings.

sorry for the double post, but one final point :

what's missing from older recordings is the inflection in a phrase that comes from hearing all the harmonics, and hearing small graduations in dynamics.

this is comparable to looking at full color art works in black and white reproductions. you're not really seeing the art work, just like you're not really hearing important parts of the performance in older recordings.

good modern recordings can let you see deeper into a work than most live performances.

I don't know about 4-D recordings but this is a fantastic band on 4AD recordings..






Dean..

quote:

what's missing from older recordings is the inflection in a phrase that comes from hearing all the harmonics, and hearing small graduations in dynamics.

this is comparable to looking at full color art works in black and white reproductions. you're not really seeing the art work, just like you're not really hearing important parts of the performance in older recordings.

good modern recordings can let you see deeper into a work than most live performances.

I'm always impressed with your articulation, Mike and you seem to have a fine tuned ear to what sounds right. Thanks for your comments on 4D - I take note to what you've said, but must add that the Tchaikovsky disc I have spreads the whole orchestra out in a semi-circular way beyond my speakers and I believe the sound is more realistic than standard CDs.

If you can post a list of 4D material, I'd be most grateful!

Regards,

Jon

Here's my list of 4D recordings, with some notations :

If you have a taste for modern music, messiaen is not a bad place to wet your beak :

Messiaen, Ex Exspecto Resurrectionem Mortuorum,
boulez/cleveland

Messiaen, Concert A Quatre,
Myung-Whun Chung /
Orchestre De L'Opera Bastille

Messiaen, Illuminations of the Beyond
Chung/Bastille

Hagen Quartet/Debussy-Ravel-Webern

Copland, Symphony No. 3 - Quiet City
Bernstein/N Y Phil

Bartok, The Miraculous Mandarin -
Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
Boulez/Chicago

Copland, Short Symphony - 3 Latin American Sketches - Quiet City
Orpheus Chamber Orchestra

Ravel Bolero :-)
Boulez/Berlin

Mendelssohn, A Midsummer Night's Dream
Ozawa/Boston (this is where the fairies live :-)

Mahler Symphony No. 9
Boulez/Chicago
(the cleanest rhythmically of any i have heard)

Mahler/Symphony No. 7
Boulez/Cleveland
(once again, the command of the meter makes a performance stand out)

Bartok, Concerto for Orchestra
Boulez/Chicago
(i prefer the dvd of boulez/berlin)

Berlioz, Symphonie Fantastique
Boulez/Cleveland
(very nice, but i prefer Gardiner/ORR on Phillips, for it's dry but electric acoustic, and the colorful use of the original instrumentation)

Hindemith, Mathis der Maler
Abbado/Berlin
(i made quite a study of this piece, learning some of Hindemith's theory, studing the rhythm of the score, and listening to this recording and one of Hindemith himself doing this piece with Berlin 50 years earlier, many times over. This is the recording to have. Here Berlin proves it has what may be the best brass section in the world (forgive me, i'm a retired trumpet player). This is the recording to have.)

Ravel, Daphnis et Chloe
Boulez/Berlin

Debussy, La Mer
Boulez/Cleveland

and i have a number of excellent DGG recordings that are DDD, but are not marked with the 4D logo, yet share the 4D sound. Chief among these would be the four Brahms symphonies by Abaddo/Berlin. Very refined balances in this one.

And I almost left the best out, so the best is saved for last :

Gardiner/ORR Beethoven Symphonies (complete) on DGG Archiv.

The playing on all these is beyond reproach and worthy of repeated listening. Some others that confound me one way or another have been left off the list, as i will not participate in their dissemination :-)

Great stuff, thanks Mike. Ive printed this out.

Regards

Jon