A big oops for McLaren.

I meant to post this last week but forgot (mind the rest of the country didn't seem to notice)

Franchitti's the Champ

and then ge gets to go home to this...


(Ashley Judd)

quote:

Glad we got that sorted.

MP2 We sorted nothing out,you seem to have.

My comments do not say I think it's OK to cheat or that McLaren have.
When and if I get to read the report I'll comment further.
What gets on my "top note" is that for years Ferrari have done illegal things and seem to get away with it. Their "sporting" attitude like Man Us is questionable ie everyone else is wrong,I suspect the main reason why people dislike them.
When they have to run a 2 car team they seem to struggle.
They should be a shoe in for the constructors championship though.


Yes,seconded well done Dario, I'm not a great fan of IRL but that last race was a real tense affair and DF only won the race and championship about 1/2 a mile from the checkered flag. He is apparently going to join Juan Montoya in the american "tin tops" NASCAR next year.
Ashley may be good to look at but I'm sure Dario leaves his earplugs in.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

What gets on my "top note" is that for years Ferrari have done illegal things and seem to get away with it.

Such as...?

Not enough room or time.

The ruling as I read is that McLaren was in possession of Ferrari technical data at various levels in the organisation. It does not say that Ferrari technology is present in the current cars;it does not say the current cars are illegal.

But it does make it very clear that this kind of espionage is considered cheating. The financial penalty will most definitely ensure that other teams won't repeat the behaviour.

quote:

Originally posted by JamieWednesday:
I meant to post this last week but forgot (mind the rest of the country didn't seem to notice)

Franchitti's the Champ

and then ge gets to go home to this...


(Ashley Judd)

But he has to put up with this sort of thing in the meantime:

WOAH!

Brave, lucky, talented.

Tony

As most observers have seen pit lane tittle tattle drummed up into "major" Ferrari "secrets".Even the FIA haven't said the "dossier" has even been seen by anyone else than MC.
Toyota do something very similar or maybe worse and nothings done.Guess Ferrari were winning everything then so it didn't matter.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
Guess Ferrari were winning everything then so it didn't matter.

Just as a matter of interest, which team do you follow in F1?

quote:

Just as a matter of interest, which team do you follow in F1?

Who cares what F1 team he supports.

It's pretty obvious who you support, however.

BigH47 does have a point. Where is the black and white, concrete evidence against McLaren? All we have is strong heresay.

You can't honestly say that the era of Ferrari and M Schumacher was always whiter than white, politically. Bernie and Max would have argued that the Earth was flat rather than upset the dream-team at their peak (which, incidentally, was one of the dullest periods in F1 I can remember.)

Who do I support?

Honda, actually! Yes, they're having a crap time but they make great road cars and their past history in F1 as an engine supplier is impeccable. They will be back, I really believe it.

I would quote yourself in a Post to me recently to "get a life and stop being an asshole" but that would be being rude and I wouldn't want to lower myself to that kind of language.

Ian

quote:

Originally posted by ianmacd:

Who cares what F1 team he supports.

It's pretty obvious who you support, however.

Yes it is pretty obvious. And wouldn't you know it - Ferrari has not been found to be cheating. McLaren has. Alonso knew about it. Ron Dennis knew about it. They got caught and they got punished. So far all I have heard is prejudicial statements against Ferrari even though they have not had any findings against them. BigH47 has yet to make a single point addressing the hard facts against McLaren - that the opinion of the ruling body of the sport - after a thorough investigation - is that they cheated. All he does is express his dislike of Ferrari with remarks that he does not care to back up with any actual information.

quote:

BigH47 does have a point. Where is the black and white, concrete evidence against McLaren? All we have is strong heresay.

"I don't think that anyone doubts that what took place was between two individuals, who acted independently of their companies. Both did incredibly stupid things that have involved their companies in such an unbelievable mess that it is just hard to believe that something so huge could have manifested itself out of that mess." - Ron Dennis

The dossier was in the possession of a McLaren employee. The laws of agency are very simple. If the dossier was in the possession of a McLaren employee then it was in the possession of McLaren.

quote:

You can't honestly say that the era of Ferrari and M Schumacher was always whiter than white, politically. Bernie and Max would have argued that the Earth was flat rather than upset the dream-team at their peak (which, incidentally, was one of the dullest periods in F1 I can remember.)

Maybe for you it was dull. For many it was not. Even Minardi had its fans - yet they had vanishingly small chances of race wins for the entire history of the team.

Ferrari might have won many years in a row. But they did make extremely reliable cars in those years. Schumacher (and I am no fan of the man himself) was simply an exceptional driver. He had a gift of pulling off very fast in-laps and out-laps in pit stops and held the lap record at a number of tracks. Don't forget - they changed the rules to slow them down and give other teams a chance - and it worked. But the usual suspects here in the Padded Cell are still whinging.

quote:

I would quote yourself in a Post to me recently to "get a life and stop being an asshole" but that would be being rude and I wouldn't want to lower myself to that kind of language.

I deserve this implication simply for asking BigH47 who he supports? Really? Does asking that question make me an arsehole?

Lotus. Now I support No 8 in NASCAR. I don't think I need to support any team in F1 to have an opinion or make observations. My observations seem to be similar to many other people here and in motor sport. FIA for whatever reason found McLaren guilty and severely punished them for non crimes.Most observers commenting that the punishments meted out by the FIA are inconsistent is putting it mildly/.