Any Crimson owners here ;?

If you do a Search on "Crimson" you will find a few small threads.

This is not a particularly apt place to start a Crimson group.

I do have an American friend from the forum who has some recent Crimson gears, pre + amp, fed with a Naim CDS3 cd player, just email me and I'll give you his email adress as he'll be probably interested in your thoughts as well.
Anyway I know that his CDS3 works beautifuly in his system.

@ Edouard

Thanks - I will drop you an email...
@ Adam

it was not my intention to start a "group" here Adam. However I have read the Rules and a lot of the threads and postings and don't think it is against the rules to mention other brands, or is it?

Besides that Crimson is such a small company compared to Naim and both are making small products - i see a lot of similarities between these two...

Cheers, +Blackforest.

meant to say "...both are making FINE products..."

Hi blackforest (et, toujours, bonjour Edouard!),

It is true, I recently converted in June from 252/250II to a Crimson 710 (Yes!) and 640E amps. My Naim odyssey includes Nait 5i (which I still own), 282 with single Hicap, then 282 with Supercap, then the 252. The CDS3 has remained a constant throughout.

We have an excellent US distributor, who also is, as far as I know, the only dealer for Crimson over here. A good friend of mine in Kansas City, and then I were offered in home trials of the 610 and 630s. To my ear, even the sound of the "entry level" electronics convinced me to make the switch. My primary impression was that the Crimson sound has even less "electronic" sound than my Naim set up. There is much else to like as well, but I tend not to be as descriptive as others about audiophile terms. I can say that it took my enjoyment of in home music listening up another notch, which is mostly what I am after. At approx. $5,000, I thought the kit represented an incredible bargain, and I had to go through extensive mental acrobatics to make sure I didn't simply "want" the sound to be better. One non-aural aspect that I did particularly like was a decrease in black box clutter.

During my in home audition of the 610 and 630s, the distributor notified us that he had a couple of prototypes of the 710 and would we three be interested in giving it a go? Well, you know what my answer had to be! He paired the 710 with the 640Es and again, my friend in Kansas City had first crack before shipping the kit to me. I shipped the 610 and 630s off to another mutual aquaintance in Minnesota and very soon thereafter listed my 252 and 250II for sale; Edouard would remember well our email correspondence during that time. Up until very recently, I was asked to remain mum about the existence of the 710 as it had not yet been released even in Europe. The prototype process has included two returns of the 710 and one return of the 640s for upgrades, and I just yesterday sent all three off to Austin for a final hands on upgrade by Peter.

The 710 has since been released in Europe and your posting is particularly timely because Peter More is coming next week to Austin to launch it here with a party at the distributor's shop next Saturday night. All three of us will be traveling there for the festivities and to meet Peter in person. If you are not familiar with the 710, you can get some basic details here. If Adam doesn't mind, I could post after-party details here, or you can email me at normanatwork@hotmail(dot)com if you want to carry out a one-on-one discussion. My friend, Steve, in Kansas City would also be an excellent source, and I am sure he would love to contribute his two pence. Steve has a much more acute ear and gets much more into the equipment than I do.

Regards,

Norman

quote:

Originally posted by blackforest:
i see a lot of similarities between these two...

Cheers, +Blackforest.

One other thing I should note: The US distributor has had extensive experience with Naim (I believe he may have previously been a Naim dealer) and is quite inwardly conflicted when he "sells" to Naimees as he is convinced that Naim is one of the very few other equipment manufacturers who actually gets music reproduction right.

Norman

norman,

Were you driving Dynaudio Confidence with a 250.2?

Kuma,

Believe it or not Norman was driving his Confidence C2 with a Nait5i and was very happy! He then swapped the Nait for a 282/250.2 and later 252, but he told me he could have live with the Nait happily!
He initially purchased a CDS3/Nait5i.

Apparently the Nait was doing a pretty good job with the C2.

quote:

but he told me he could have live with the Nait happily!

Oh sure.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

but he told me he could have lived with the Nait happily!

Oh sure.

Nonetheless it was Norman's feeling
However the Crimson amp being quite more powerful (170W I think)it was probably more up to the task at driving the C2 that's probably why Norman is even happier with the Crimson.

quote:

However the Crimson amp being quite more powerful (170W I think)it was probably more up to the task at driving the C2 that's probably why Norman is even happier with the Crimson.

That was my point.
I doubt a 250 can drive them properly to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

but he told me he could have live with the Nait happily!

Oh sure.

Indeed, Edouard has quoted me accurately. The operative term here is "could" not "should" or "would". I have previously injected opinions on this forum on threads that have dealt with downgrades and satisfaction with what would be considered entry level kit. The Nait 5i makes music in all the right ways and IMO is a stunning bargain. Edouard again is correct that I matched it with the CDS3 I already owned and was using with tubes. The Nait's 50 watts did/does a very credible job with the Dynaudio C2s in my space, which measure some 14x30 ft with vaulted ceilings. However, I tend not to play at excessively loud levels, and when I want to, the Nait understandably is not up to the task. That, however, is less than 5% of my listening time. Still, I think that the C2s are an easy load to drive, as I have listened with as few as 25 watts (tube watts, granted).

But back to "could".I think that all on this forum would agree that entry level Naim kit matched to sympathetic speakers blows away 95% of systems, of any price, out there in terms of getting the essence of music right. However, most of us believe that we "deserve" more and save to acquire kit appropriate to our needs or even, to some extent, our station in life. Arguably, I can afford a 552/500 based system, but I have chosen to find my comfort point a bit further down on the value-for-money curve. A not insignificant consideration is resale, as developments in this field will inexorably move the state of the art forward, and we all eventually find ourselves in a position of flogging off our used kit at some point in time. Kuma, you and I met on Audiogon, so I know that you are well aware of that aspect of our hobby. 202/200s sell much more readily than 552/500s; I have seen two sets of 552/550s languish on Audiogon, their owners likely having to sell because of some financial reversal in their lives. And, Naits sell almost before the listing bytes dry. When I first settled in with my 252, I thought I had found the kit to be buried with me at the end of my happy life. After 30+ years in this hobby, I should have known better. Now, I am far from being one of those who turns over his kit annually; I really much prefer to settle for the long haul into a set up that makes music best for me in a contemporarytime frame. I actually have to either blame (or credit) my friend Steve in Kansas City for regularly stirring me from my doldrums about every three years on average. Otherwise, I would still be listening to True Image electronics (anyone out there remember that???) As I am extremely pleased with my current Crimson situation, I have no plans to change that at any time soon. However, Edouard would know that I am a bit on the fence about my CD playback situation

Well, we've gotten way off point for this thread. Threads seem not to wander this far off until about the 30th posting.

Norman

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

However the Crimson amp being quite more powerful (170W I think)it was probably more up to the task at driving the C2 that's probably why Norman is even happier with the Crimson.

That was my point.
I doubt a 250 can drive them properly to begin with.

I don't understand why the 250II gets so little respect on this forum.

Norman

Norman,

It's great that you found something you really like.
If the Crimson is it for you and work better with your speakers that all it matters.

I would love to hear it as I have heard a good thing about it.

For your Dyn. it does seems to make more sense to give more power than a Naim power can provide comfortably.

I'm not doubting you think that your speakers sound good with a Nait 5i considering the volume you play. For me, probably it won't suffice and certainly does not do the speaker justice. There are many other solid state options available less costlier than Naim. And it seems the Crimson fits your bill.

I don't make a purchase decision based on a resale value. I have a pair of speakers that are locally made that has a very little secondary market value. I knew I would lose money if I were to resell them but I purchased them anyways since they worked well with my SET amps. ( they are voiced together )

I guess that the same goes for many item I've owned. I can't really worry about what I lose down the line especially when a piece of kit works to my liking.

As a rule of thumb, I haven't bought many items off the internet as in case of product failure ( called the Kuma curse ) , I need a dealer/factory assitsance.
But I understand the depreciation factor on the audio kit if you want to swap the gear often.
Generally, tho, I'd think that Naim gear retains their value better than others and easier to sell than the Crimson.

I have to say the purchase of your Stageline N was rather impulsive as I was already using a valve phono. ( curiosity always gets me in trouble )

quote:

I don't understand why the 250II gets so little respect on this forum.

You loved it so much that you sold it and repaced it with the Crimson.

quote:

You loved it so much that you sold it and repaced it with the Crimson.

Kuma,

Note that Norman replaced his whole Naim amplification 252/SC1/250.2 for Crimson gears, thanks to his friend Steve...
He has not taken his decision yet as for swapping his CDS3...
If it wasn't for his friend Steve, Norman had found the kit CDS3/252/250.2...to be buried with him at the end of his happy life as he was extremely happy with it.

Edouard,

No need to justify or defend Norman's decision.

Naim is not for everyone.
As much as he thinks well of Naim, the bottom line is he prefered it to something else.

Many people migrate to something else all the time.
Perhaps not better but because it's different.

Kuma,

My point was that Norman loved his 250.2 as much as his 252.

Hi Kuma et encore, Edouard,

Upon reflection after yesterday's posting, I cannot completely discount the possibility that power plays some role in my preferring the Crimson pairing with my Dynaudios, though I doubt that power is the whole story. While it is true that 180 W/ch looks like a whole lot more power compared to the 250's 80W, that should really only amount to a little more than 3dB headroom when pushing the amp(s) hard. Again, I do not think that I use much more than the first watt on a regular basis, so I doubt that dynamic headroom of one or the other amp would play much of a role in the sonic differences during most listening. I had forgotten, Kuma, that you are using SETs. In that case, I am sure that output capability is much more on the front burner of your consciousness than for most of us.

Interesting discussion, though. It has had me thinking in the last 24 hrs of factors I don't usually ponder. Again, I just prefer to let the kit do its work without giving it all that much ongoing thought.

Norman

Hello Norman,

Thanks for answering that quick ;!

I have read about the 710 (and have also seen the pictures) but priced the way it is it goes fairly beyond my limit. At least you have a remote control - the only thing I miss ;...

Interestingly enough I have also tested Dynaudio speakers (the new Focus 220s) with Crimsons and the 620D was easily strong enough to control them. The 620 D can't be much stronger than 50 watts @ 8 ohms...

It's a pity that the 610 is not on the market any more so there's no more entry level Crimson gear as well (which I don't understand - 7000 US$ compared to 1400 IS a big difference!).

Are you using DNM Solidcore ls cables?

Regards, Blackforest.

7000 dollars for the new pre?! Just because it has a remote? Is the casing suddenly made out of gold? The old pre used to cost around 900EUR...

I am interested in Crimson electronics, though I have never heard them (they are a bit difficult to find in germany).
What always annoyed me is that they dont have a remote... but now with the price soaring up to 7000 dollars it's definitely off the list for me...



Samuel

Tonstudio Tempelhof is the only Crimson dealer in Berlin. I think you can still get a 610CII (highly recommended).

Who needs a remote control ;?

Cheers, +Blackforest.

Im surprised they have Crimson.

Last few times I was there it seemed to me they were mainly in the trade of selling bling-bling-"HEY LOOK AT ME, I'M EXPENSIVE!!!" kind of stuff... oh and a lot of (too much for my taste) esoteric voodoo things as well..



Samuel

You're right and I think they make a lot of money wioth rich dentists & MDs from Charlottenburg selling Burmester...

I have seen some Avalons and Thiels in their basement studio though.

You have to arrange a demo by phone to get them to notice you - kind of difficult owener ;!

Regards - Blackforest.

quote:

Originally posted by blackforest:
You're right and I think they make a lot of money wioth rich dentists & MDs from Charlottenburg selling Burmester...

quote:

kind of difficult owener ;!

I agree.



Samuel

Everybody please excuse my poor pronouncation - I can really do better!

Blackforest.