Karma or Troika?

Posted by: Alex S. on 29 August 2001

Expert Stylus have offered me a rebuilt Karma or Troika for the same money (£380, which seems reasonable). My instinct was for the Troika, their advice was to go for the Karma.

What's the forum advice?

(Please don't tell me to buy an Aro and keep the DV20-X I already have - its nearly nackered and I don't have adequate tonearm funds).

Alex.

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Steve B
What do they do to make a Karma preferable to the Troika? Do they make the Karma better than the original or the Troika worse?

I remember the Troika being a significant upgrade from the Karma.

Did you ask them why they gave that advice Alex?

Steve B

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Dev B
The Karma has a more rigid body as it uses a one piece body instead of the Troika side cheeks which are glued on to a narrow body holding the juicy bits.

controversial eh?

i'd go for a newer design anyday. all this talk about kans better than sbls, karma better than XX1-L, wobbly quadraspire better than mana, nait 2 better than 32.5/Hicap/250 is just making me laugh. this place is more bizarre than the mana forum.

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Dev B
save up or buy an aro and get your dynavetor retipped or whatever, expert can put a better cantilever or tip on your cartridge
Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Alex S.
Dev - for the post I asked not for. (But thanks all the same).

Paul & Steve B. The guy I spoke to seemed to know his stuff and didn't seem to be pulling a fast one. He said the innards of both cartidges were identical as far as he knew and thought the 3 point fixing on the Troika was like claiming you needed 5 wheels on a car for extra stability. Perhaps its the single metal casing on the Karma which allows him to do a better job - less to go wrong perhaps.

Maybe I should trust his advice - a rebuilt Karma could be better than a rebuilt Troika even if the reverse was true of each off the shelf. Anyway he promised that if I was in any way dissatisfied with the Karma I could swap it with a Troika for no extra money.

Alex.

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Alex S:
_Dev_ - for the post I asked not for. (But thanks all the same).


Dev is telling you that you could get your existing cart retipped for half the price of the Karma/Troika, and don't have to upgrade the arm for now.

I guess it's not much of an upgrade, but it's cheap!

Martin

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Alex S.
Dev - Martin has jumped to your defence - I have no wish to offend. Thing is I don't like my DV and don't want it re-tipped. I'm buying a Linto and a Karma/Troika will be much better suited. I kinda like the Ittok and I'm not willing to bin it just yet.

Per - I just rang saying "help" and it seems they could supply either a Troika or a Karma immediately at the price quoted. I think the old Linn carts come and go fairly regularly. They also turn over a lot of Koetsus.

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Chris Dolan
Alex

I've just changed my cartridge from an old Denon 304 to a DV20-X L. Unlike you I like it very much, so please feel free to disregard my views. My TT is LP12/Lingo/Ekos.

I had used a Troika and still have the cartridge. I was very tempted to get it rebuilt as originally it was a fantastic cartridge, and IMO it was better than the Karma - which I heard many times.

I wimped out on a re-build because the stories I heard were so "hit and miss". I was able to listen extensively to cartridges at my dealer and I am very happy with the selection I made.

FWIW I would also suggest you aim to improve the arm first - If you need to replace the DV go for something cheaper and put the rest of the money towards the arm.

I prefer the Ekos to the Aro based predominantly on comparisons with the Troika - although I consider that the Aro probably allows a wider range of compatible cartridges. The Ekos is more user friendly as well, but I could live with either.

Chris

Posted on: 29 August 2001 by Martin Payne
Alex,

sorry, I was just feeling a bit tetchy because I had to wait half an hour for a service on the computer at work to come back online & I needed to be getting home.

Now then, a Koetsu. Hmm - might be tempted by one myself rather than having them re-tip my ART1 again next time around. I wonder how much?

Sorry again!

Martin

Posted on: 30 August 2001 by Alex S.
Martin No need to apologise.

Per I don't think they have e-mail, tel. (from England) is: (0)1372 276 604 - speak to Wyndham Hodgson.

Chris What I should have said about my DV is that I don't like it compared to the Troika it replaced. I also suspect that your DV20X-L is a better cartridge than the DV20X-H that I bought.

JChristophe I'm wavering, I loved my Troika but I do trust the guy I spoke to. Perhaps its simply that Expert can do a better rebuild job on a Karma than on a Troika because of the former's one piece body. If indeed they are the same inside then I guess its fair to ask the same price. Off the shelf I would take a Troika every time.

Posted on: 30 August 2001 by Alex S.
I had another chat with Expert and have decided to get the Trioka.

I asked if they could rebuild them equally well - Yes, 'look after' my Troika in the future - Yes (also various upgrades planned).

Expert prefer the Karma from an engineering point of view and see the 3 point fixing as a sales gimmick; again they said the insides are identical.

I choose Troika because a) pd and others have advised me to, b) I've had one before and was very happy with it, c) know human nature - If I buy a Karma I might always think I should have bought the Troika. The reverse seems much less likely.

Thanks to all

Alex

Posted on: 30 August 2001 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by pd cornelius:

My friends rebuilt Troika is tracking better ... than it did when new


Hmm, this is interesting also - tracking was the area of my own Troika which I was most unhappy about and, of course, concerned about my records.

Fascinating stuff.

My own ART1 has been re-tipped by them a couple of times, and I had not felt it was as good as the original, but it's really doing nicely since my deck was serviced & upgraded recently.

cheers, Martin