I now have access to the money!!!!
Posted by: Consciousmess on 28 August 2008
Hi all,
I have to write this message as I am soon to receive a credit card with just over 5500 credit limit, and I plan on using it to its max.
Before I ask my audiophile question, the reason why I am going to do this is because I want to reach as high up the Naim ladder as I can and my other half is going to start wanting children in the next 3 years. I want to get all my selfish purchasing done before then as I know afterwards my hifi upgrading journey comes to a halt. I also want to enjoy it in peace. Incidentally, I can afford to pay the minimum amount each month for the credit card and like to think I work in a very stable line of work (teaching).
So with this money, I am in a slight dilemma. As you can see on my profile I currently have:
CDS3+XPS
NAC282+Hicap+NAPSC
NAP300
B&W805s speakers
I have been conscious (!) that the NAC282 needs the Supercap2 to properly shine and bring out its best with my NAP300. I am also conscious that my speakers are letting the whole proceeding down as I only hear bits of what my electronics are doing.
(I suppose my username sums up my scenario.)
On the speaker front and based on the size of my listening room, I want to go further up the B&W800 series (aesthetically gorgeous) and so my purchasing dilemma is this:
B&W804S + SC2: 2700 + 3200
B&W803S: 3800 + some upgrading change.
So what do I do? I will also have items to sell and perhaps get back some further money back; this might go towards an engagement ring!
I want to get my final speakers and feel the B&W804s aren't quite there, but then again if I get the B&W803s I wont have much spare cash for a SC2, let alone the 555PS.
I would be so helpful if you could advise as I'm spending large amounts of money (to me) and I dont want to get to a dead end where I know Im missing key Naim electronics.
Many thanks in advance!!!
Jon
I have to write this message as I am soon to receive a credit card with just over 5500 credit limit, and I plan on using it to its max.
Before I ask my audiophile question, the reason why I am going to do this is because I want to reach as high up the Naim ladder as I can and my other half is going to start wanting children in the next 3 years. I want to get all my selfish purchasing done before then as I know afterwards my hifi upgrading journey comes to a halt. I also want to enjoy it in peace. Incidentally, I can afford to pay the minimum amount each month for the credit card and like to think I work in a very stable line of work (teaching).
So with this money, I am in a slight dilemma. As you can see on my profile I currently have:
CDS3+XPS
NAC282+Hicap+NAPSC
NAP300
B&W805s speakers
I have been conscious (!) that the NAC282 needs the Supercap2 to properly shine and bring out its best with my NAP300. I am also conscious that my speakers are letting the whole proceeding down as I only hear bits of what my electronics are doing.
(I suppose my username sums up my scenario.)
On the speaker front and based on the size of my listening room, I want to go further up the B&W800 series (aesthetically gorgeous) and so my purchasing dilemma is this:
B&W804S + SC2: 2700 + 3200
B&W803S: 3800 + some upgrading change.
So what do I do? I will also have items to sell and perhaps get back some further money back; this might go towards an engagement ring!
I want to get my final speakers and feel the B&W804s aren't quite there, but then again if I get the B&W803s I wont have much spare cash for a SC2, let alone the 555PS.
I would be so helpful if you could advise as I'm spending large amounts of money (to me) and I dont want to get to a dead end where I know Im missing key Naim electronics.
Many thanks in advance!!!
Jon
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by pcstockton
minimum payments on a $5500 cc debt?
Your kid will be paying for their own college before you are done paying that off.
Advice? Don't spend money you don't have.
Lastly, your kit looks awesome! What is your issue with it? What do you want to improve? Or are you just changing for the sake of change.
If you are not extremely happy with your fantastic kit, you must not like Naim gear.

Your kid will be paying for their own college before you are done paying that off.
Advice? Don't spend money you don't have.
Lastly, your kit looks awesome! What is your issue with it? What do you want to improve? Or are you just changing for the sake of change.
If you are not extremely happy with your fantastic kit, you must not like Naim gear.
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Franz K
quote:
Your kid will be paying for their own college before you are done paying that off.
Advice? Don't spend money you don't have.
Seconded!!!
Have you checked the s/h market?
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Exiled Highlander
That would be closer to $11,000 as I suspect his limit is in £'s...
I agree with the sentiment though.
Jim
I agree with the sentiment though.
Jim
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by pcstockton
$11,000!! Ouch, I didnt notice his location....
Jon... buy a couple levels of Fraim and call it a day. Destroy the card and pay if off in a year.
$11,000 paid back with a minimum payment, and at a VERY GOOD RATE of 6%, it would take over THIRTY YEARS to pay off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would assume you are paying a higher rate than that....
Jon... buy a couple levels of Fraim and call it a day. Destroy the card and pay if off in a year.
$11,000 paid back with a minimum payment, and at a VERY GOOD RATE of 6%, it would take over THIRTY YEARS to pay off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would assume you are paying a higher rate than that....
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Joppe
I would go for SC2 and if possible PS555. I guess that you won’t be playing that loud any way when children arrive. On the other hand some are not fond on the thought of children and stand mount speakers, which might shift the decision towards new speakers…
I guess further comments on financing aren’t needed.
Atb/Jakob
I guess further comments on financing aren’t needed.
Atb/Jakob
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Gary S.
Jon
You're a hopeless case
Look, don't take this personally, but what you're proposing is ludicrous. Earlier today, in another post you were talking about taking capital from your house to fund a 552 and now your talking about using a credit card and only paying off the minimum. Do you realise how much these two methods of credit are going to cost?
You have a lovely system, why not enjoy it whilst saving up for any upgrades, personally I would actually pay off the mortgage, but we all have different priorities.
Regards
Gary
You're a hopeless case

You have a lovely system, why not enjoy it whilst saving up for any upgrades, personally I would actually pay off the mortgage, but we all have different priorities.
Regards
Gary
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Julian H
Jon
You must be off your trolley.
Best wishes, Julian
You must be off your trolley.
Best wishes, Julian
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by 555
Hi Jon
It's your decision, but don't forget you have to live with the consequences. My advice has to be don't do it! I've never borrowed money for HiFi because I think it's too risky - sorry dealers! Added to this the UK & world economies are at best rocky, & forecasts point to things getting much worse before they get better. Perhaps most significantly you already have a system most audiophiles can only dream of.
If you are going to start a family soonish you should also think about the financial effects. If you & SWMTSIBO both work, you are going to have a reduction in income. If you have a mortgage it seems likely the cost will be going up due to the credit squeeze, & if you will be attempting to climb the housing ladder to accommodate sprogs you going to pay even more for you mortgage. Have you calculated the cost of moving? I moved last July & the legal, estate agent, & removal costs plus out of pocket expenses came to about £20,000. Then there's the rate of inflation to consider, as it seems likely public sector workers are going to suffer pay rises far below RPI for the next few years.
If I can't talk you out of your HiFi plan, at least get a personal loan. You shouldn't have any problems with your employment record, & this will be a far cheaper then using a CC. Defiantly look in to 2nd hand & ex' dem' equipment. In the U.K. Tom Tom Audio & Cymbiosis usually have the most stock of this type. They will also offer you a fair PX for the parts of your system you no longer require.
Good luck & take care - John
It's your decision, but don't forget you have to live with the consequences. My advice has to be don't do it! I've never borrowed money for HiFi because I think it's too risky - sorry dealers! Added to this the UK & world economies are at best rocky, & forecasts point to things getting much worse before they get better. Perhaps most significantly you already have a system most audiophiles can only dream of.
If you are going to start a family soonish you should also think about the financial effects. If you & SWMTSIBO both work, you are going to have a reduction in income. If you have a mortgage it seems likely the cost will be going up due to the credit squeeze, & if you will be attempting to climb the housing ladder to accommodate sprogs you going to pay even more for you mortgage. Have you calculated the cost of moving? I moved last July & the legal, estate agent, & removal costs plus out of pocket expenses came to about £20,000. Then there's the rate of inflation to consider, as it seems likely public sector workers are going to suffer pay rises far below RPI for the next few years.

If I can't talk you out of your HiFi plan, at least get a personal loan. You shouldn't have any problems with your employment record, & this will be a far cheaper then using a CC. Defiantly look in to 2nd hand & ex' dem' equipment. In the U.K. Tom Tom Audio & Cymbiosis usually have the most stock of this type. They will also offer you a fair PX for the parts of your system you no longer require.
Good luck & take care - John
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by JWM
Jon,
It's tempting, isn't it??!! On my cards I could actually muster the £60,000 credit that would get me 555,552,500,rosewood DBLs and Fraim. But if I did, it would be an indication that I was certifiable.
There are times when the cheesy old saying 'Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have' is a very wise saying.
No, it's not up to me to tell you how to spend your money, or not (though I guess you've invited our opinions by posting). But I think it's very dangerous territory maxing out on cards - not only because of the insane amount on interest which means you end up paying three or four times as much, but also (especially when children are in the picture) unexpected and quite big financial things can crop up unexpectedly, for example in our own case a blown diesal engine over the summer - £1600 just like that.
The Forum is a great place to be. I've made lots of great real-life friends through it. But it can be an updraditis breeding nightmare.
With all good wishes,
James
It's tempting, isn't it??!! On my cards I could actually muster the £60,000 credit that would get me 555,552,500,rosewood DBLs and Fraim. But if I did, it would be an indication that I was certifiable.
There are times when the cheesy old saying 'Happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have' is a very wise saying.
No, it's not up to me to tell you how to spend your money, or not (though I guess you've invited our opinions by posting). But I think it's very dangerous territory maxing out on cards - not only because of the insane amount on interest which means you end up paying three or four times as much, but also (especially when children are in the picture) unexpected and quite big financial things can crop up unexpectedly, for example in our own case a blown diesal engine over the summer - £1600 just like that.
The Forum is a great place to be. I've made lots of great real-life friends through it. But it can be an updraditis breeding nightmare.
With all good wishes,
James
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Stephen Tate
Hi,
If it were me i would go to the retailer and audition the options available to you.
A home demo is a must.
All you will get on here are other peoples opinions.
Regards, Steve
If it were me i would go to the retailer and audition the options available to you.
A home demo is a must.
All you will get on here are other peoples opinions.
Regards, Steve
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Consciousmess
Many thanks for the finances advice guys, but I am currently debt-free apart from the joint mortgage with my partner. The CC will also be interest free for 10 months and after that I will transfer the debt to new card.
I am solvent to the extent that I just have the regular bills, and I have been trying for ages to get a credit card - and now I have one. Im also very passionate about Naim hifi and my life-clock is ticking at 32 in the context of responsibilities!!!
So thanks for the finances tip. I know debt is what no-one wants, but I am running out of time to get my maximum system.
Thanks for your tip, Joppe, as I do have a desire for the PS555, but the floor standing speakers are something I need as Im missing so much of the available sound!
So should I get the SC2 now, with the speakers or just max out as far as I can on the speaker front - then look for a sexond hand SC2 in a few months???
Cheers!
Jon
I am solvent to the extent that I just have the regular bills, and I have been trying for ages to get a credit card - and now I have one. Im also very passionate about Naim hifi and my life-clock is ticking at 32 in the context of responsibilities!!!
So thanks for the finances tip. I know debt is what no-one wants, but I am running out of time to get my maximum system.
Thanks for your tip, Joppe, as I do have a desire for the PS555, but the floor standing speakers are something I need as Im missing so much of the available sound!
So should I get the SC2 now, with the speakers or just max out as far as I can on the speaker front - then look for a sexond hand SC2 in a few months???
Cheers!
Jon
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by 555
I don't want to wee on your partee, but you really should have a deep read of websites such as money saving expert & Money supermarket.
It seems unlikely there will be any 0% CCs available in 10 months. How would your finances cope if in 10 months the best you can get is a 16.9% APR loan, & petrol has gone up by 15%, & food 20%, & gas/electric 25%, & SWMTSIBO has fallen pregnant unplanned, etc?
Ask yourself 'What am I unhappy about with my system?', rather then 'How much money can I spend?' I fear you risk buying in haste, & regretting at leisure.
It seems unlikely there will be any 0% CCs available in 10 months. How would your finances cope if in 10 months the best you can get is a 16.9% APR loan, & petrol has gone up by 15%, & food 20%, & gas/electric 25%, & SWMTSIBO has fallen pregnant unplanned, etc?
Ask yourself 'What am I unhappy about with my system?', rather then 'How much money can I spend?' I fear you risk buying in haste, & regretting at leisure.
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by KTMax
Jon, in line with most sentiments here, this sounds like a really bad plan imo. Hifi stuff isn't hat important to go in debt for on a CCard. In fact it's not important AT ALL. Nice to have at best. C'mon!...
This type of financial bandwidth is best saved for boring things like a washing machine, dryer, and the roof of your house all collapsing in the same month.
Put your missus on here and we'll try to talk some sense into her...
Richard.
This type of financial bandwidth is best saved for boring things like a washing machine, dryer, and the roof of your house all collapsing in the same month.
Put your missus on here and we'll try to talk some sense into her...

Richard.
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Tom E.
I was sort of hoping one of our esteemed forum members would weigh in on this issue. I won't name naims, but we all know who he is, he went very deep into hock to surround himself and his family with the best Naim kit money could buy, only to realize the folly of having so much money tied up in "stuff" when there were more important things to life. He was able to sell off most of his kit, and has reported (several times) that he is very content with a more modest setup.
And Jon, at 32, your life clock should have plenty of ticks left in it. I didn't manage to get my first bit of Naim until I was 55, six years ago.
Tom
And Jon, at 32, your life clock should have plenty of ticks left in it. I didn't manage to get my first bit of Naim until I was 55, six years ago.
Tom
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by intothevoid
Jeez, I hope you don't teach finance. 

Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Frank Abela
Jon,
You might have the current card with 10 months' interest free but the fact is it's becoming very difficult for people to switch from one 0% card to the next and with the credit crunch lasting well into next year at current projections, the chances of being able to borrow on 0% will be that much lower. Now, if you DO insist...
Do they have to be B&Ws? I far prefer Allaes which would really open up your system. A pair of them and a Supercap would be the way to go.
In essence I'd share the expenditure between speakers and preamp. One thing though - you don't mention the HiLine and this has to be in there.
You might have the current card with 10 months' interest free but the fact is it's becoming very difficult for people to switch from one 0% card to the next and with the credit crunch lasting well into next year at current projections, the chances of being able to borrow on 0% will be that much lower. Now, if you DO insist...
Do they have to be B&Ws? I far prefer Allaes which would really open up your system. A pair of them and a Supercap would be the way to go.
In essence I'd share the expenditure between speakers and preamp. One thing though - you don't mention the HiLine and this has to be in there.
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by u77033103172058601
Step 1 - have a vasectomy; stops those pesky things called children spoiling your fun.
Step 2 - get whatever equipment you want.
Step 2 - get whatever equipment you want.
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by pjl
Jon,
You aren't going to like this, and you probably won't be interested by now but I'm in complete agreement with what 99% of people are saying. You have a superb system, one that many people here can only dream of owning. It isn't perfect and it can be improved upon. It will however cost you many, many thousands of pounds to make really significant night-and-day improvements, as opposed to slight ones. With your set-up, and especially as you have the 300, I would be looking to get a 552 next. That in my opinion is your next sensible move, and what your system deserves. At the moment I'm afraid you SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD IT! If you could, you wouldn't be talking about credit cards, you would simply get a cheque out of the building society and be done with it. Don't put yourself in debt for something as trivial as improving your hi-fi system. You say your financial situation is stable. THIS IS AN ILLUSION - DO NOT BE FOOLED BY IT. Many things can change suddenly in life, and when we least expect them to. You say you will soon be starting a family. You will then need every penny you can get. You will still be paying off your credit card bill years after the buzz of buying new equipment has worn off. Sorry if all this sounds like a lecture, and I know your finances are none of my business, but it is all tied up with your question. Most forum memebers here have given you some very sound advice - ignore it at your peril.
Regards,
Peter
You aren't going to like this, and you probably won't be interested by now but I'm in complete agreement with what 99% of people are saying. You have a superb system, one that many people here can only dream of owning. It isn't perfect and it can be improved upon. It will however cost you many, many thousands of pounds to make really significant night-and-day improvements, as opposed to slight ones. With your set-up, and especially as you have the 300, I would be looking to get a 552 next. That in my opinion is your next sensible move, and what your system deserves. At the moment I'm afraid you SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD IT! If you could, you wouldn't be talking about credit cards, you would simply get a cheque out of the building society and be done with it. Don't put yourself in debt for something as trivial as improving your hi-fi system. You say your financial situation is stable. THIS IS AN ILLUSION - DO NOT BE FOOLED BY IT. Many things can change suddenly in life, and when we least expect them to. You say you will soon be starting a family. You will then need every penny you can get. You will still be paying off your credit card bill years after the buzz of buying new equipment has worn off. Sorry if all this sounds like a lecture, and I know your finances are none of my business, but it is all tied up with your question. Most forum memebers here have given you some very sound advice - ignore it at your peril.
Regards,
Peter
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by 555
quote:Step 1 - have a vasectomy; stops those pesky things called children spoiling your fun.
Step 2 - get whatever equipment you want.
I'm going out on a limb here - would you be single Nick?

Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Whizzkid
Some people just do not listen, haven't we been here before. I think Nigel (HH) needs to have a word in his shell like.
Dean..
Dean..
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by hi fi fo fum
Hey Man, take your C.C. book a trip to Las Vegas, then get the balance in a cash advance and bet it all on the wheel.... 18 Black ..I've got a feeling your going to win.....
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Lark
Hi
I too love to upgrade, but always do it with spare none borrowed money. However, you are young, have no commitments at the moment so I would say live a little. I too got the warning that the biological clock had started to tick and went straight out and joined the golf club I had always wanted to and got the bag of gear to match. It didn't hurt me or my family.
No one would bat an eyelid if you got a car loan and splashed the whole 5K wad on a glamourous second hand Ford KA that will be worth bod all in three years.
I would also advise caution but all work and no play.....Why not contact your dealer about a second hand Supercap? It will cost you with trade in for Hicap a little over a K. This will be a great upgrade and will have you smiling
If things then go tits up financially then you could off load it with little or no loss. This will stop the burning sensation in your pocket and is very sensible financially!
Sorry bit boring, but you do get a new toy.
Cheers Karl
I too love to upgrade, but always do it with spare none borrowed money. However, you are young, have no commitments at the moment so I would say live a little. I too got the warning that the biological clock had started to tick and went straight out and joined the golf club I had always wanted to and got the bag of gear to match. It didn't hurt me or my family.
No one would bat an eyelid if you got a car loan and splashed the whole 5K wad on a glamourous second hand Ford KA that will be worth bod all in three years.
I would also advise caution but all work and no play.....Why not contact your dealer about a second hand Supercap? It will cost you with trade in for Hicap a little over a K. This will be a great upgrade and will have you smiling

Sorry bit boring, but you do get a new toy.
Cheers Karl
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by pjl
I hope Jon is taking all this advice in the spirit in which it is meant! It's very heartwarming actually, and very re-assuring to see that most of us, despite our Naim obsessions, have at laest managed to retain a tenuous grasp of reality!
Peter
Peter
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Consciousmess
What can I say guys, but many thanks for your advice and concerns about my financial plans.
It is such a tricky one as I am a simple man, I am not into fast cars nor expensive holidays, I have a roof over my head, a job, a partner, all the cliches like a loving family etc., so my dedicated selfish passion is audiophile music reproduction.
Having a vasectomy is a good suggestion but I dont think it would work for long, as she might guess something aint right!!
I have to mention that I did get a bank loan to buy my NAP300, so I already have hifi debt and the only way for me to reach even better Naim heights is through borrowing money again.
(She doesnt know about this by the way, but white lies harm no-one.)
Thanks again for your financial tips.
I note your point, Frank Abela, anout getting the Allaes and a Supercap but they don't look as sexy as the B&Ws. I'll trust your word though and audition them.
And Peter, I'd love to get the 552 - just the thought does strange things to me, but I know very well that that sort of expense has to wait until we make a good profit selling this house in a few years.
I note all your advice about finances, but I think I'll visit my local dealer next week and audition.
I'll decide then I think!
Many thanks
Jon
PS I don't teach Finance as it happens!!
It is such a tricky one as I am a simple man, I am not into fast cars nor expensive holidays, I have a roof over my head, a job, a partner, all the cliches like a loving family etc., so my dedicated selfish passion is audiophile music reproduction.
Having a vasectomy is a good suggestion but I dont think it would work for long, as she might guess something aint right!!
I have to mention that I did get a bank loan to buy my NAP300, so I already have hifi debt and the only way for me to reach even better Naim heights is through borrowing money again.
(She doesnt know about this by the way, but white lies harm no-one.)
Thanks again for your financial tips.
I note your point, Frank Abela, anout getting the Allaes and a Supercap but they don't look as sexy as the B&Ws. I'll trust your word though and audition them.
And Peter, I'd love to get the 552 - just the thought does strange things to me, but I know very well that that sort of expense has to wait until we make a good profit selling this house in a few years.
I note all your advice about finances, but I think I'll visit my local dealer next week and audition.
I'll decide then I think!
Many thanks
Jon
PS I don't teach Finance as it happens!!
Posted on: 28 August 2008 by Guido Fawkes
Jon - please don't get yourself in debt - you have a good system - enjoy it. You won't enjoy it if you overspend. I love music too, but there is a limit to what I can afford to spend on kit and I stay within that limit. It really doesn't worry me that Naim does a better system than the one I have - in fact I'm glad it does: if I could afford it then I'd buy it, but I can't so that's fine. I can still enjoy music.
I don't like flashy cars and would never waste money on a car. I have one that gets me from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. If I were given a Porsche I'd sell it and buy something useful like a 552/500.
As for hi-fi advice, I'm with Frank 100% on the Allaes and a Super-Cap, but not if it means paying a credit card bit by bit.
Enjoy your system -
ATB Rotf
I don't like flashy cars and would never waste money on a car. I have one that gets me from A to B in reasonable comfort and safety. If I were given a Porsche I'd sell it and buy something useful like a 552/500.
As for hi-fi advice, I'm with Frank 100% on the Allaes and a Super-Cap, but not if it means paying a credit card bit by bit.
Enjoy your system -
ATB Rotf