they don't things the way we used to...

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or would my shop just end up being used as a demo base for people buying elsewhere...

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Well I would just go there to drink your coffee!

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

When CD really started to clobber vinyl (late 80's) I thought the worst. I am happily surprised that I can still go into plenty of dealers and hear high quality analogue as well as pick up most of what I want on vinyl. If anything I think things are getting even better for lp users. Lovely....

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When CD really started to clobber vinyl (late 80's) I thought the worst.

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Simon

I trust you mean a sales clobbering rather than one of performance?

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

I'm afraid a (dream)shop like the one you mentioned would have a very difficult time trying to survive in these days of HT and design-audio.
Unfortunatly,all that home-theatre and design
stuff seem to be growing in popularity real fast.

Too bad!

2 months ago I walked into the only store left in my town that sells some reasonable HiFi. (MF,B&W,Clearaudio,Diapason,Kef,Cyrus,ect..No,no Naim)
I asked them if they could use assistance for their shop during the weekends.
Last week I got a call from the owner,telling me I could start right away. WOW! I thougt,but....
the joy didn't last for very long.

He also told me that it was very,very difficult to run a store with pure 100% audio,so....
they would get more specialised in HT and B&O within a year!!
Not because HE really wanted,but only because there's a big market for these things,so....

friendly but secure I refused the offer...
(I can't sell this kinda stuff)

the odd thing is: 40 minutes driving from this store there's a real flat-earth HiFi-store who still sells Turntables,Naim,Royd,Rega,Revolver,Well Tempered,Shahinian,Linn,etc,etc and he has some
regular customers from all over Holland.

Guess those folks got hooked on flat-earth audio,
instead of blindly following the HT-hype and all.

Greetings,
Alco.

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he has some
regular customers from all over Holland

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Alco,

I think this is probably the relevant fact. These shops probably survive by attracting people from quite a wide area.

If you had a shop in every town/city then each shop might not survive.

cheers, Martin

there are no enough of us out there, heh...

well, never mind.

lets see now, why dont bring those spare system Kans into my office and ... etc etc...

enjoy

ken

enjoy

ken

I heard/read many stories 'bout people who listened in one shop te a pair of speakers they prefered,and then later they'd order the speakers
at another store where they are cheaper.

And then we also have those blokes that'll buy anything as long as it's got some rave reviews and the salesman agrees with those reviews.
(as long as it's got 5 stars in W..t-HiFi,it's gotta be damn good,right ?! ..yeah,sure)
I made the same mistakes in the past. I bought me a Cyrus integrated amp,'cause it got some rave reviews in different magazines. A year later I heard my current Nait-2... Oh,my god! What an improvement over the Cyrus! but,...but,...it couldn't be...I had 2 magazines in which the Nait-2 was reviewed as "well,not that bad,but nothing special either" So, how could it be so much better then the Cyrus ?
yeah,folks, I learned my lesson now.. learn to trust my own ears,instead of all those mags.

hm,it's too bad,there aren't more of us flat-earth kinda guys,on this planet.
Seems like the HT,multi this/multi that folks are
brainwashed by magazines,media,etc.

O,well. life goes on,eh.

I'm glad I got (older &)'wise' over the years,even though it did cost me a fortune,buying the wrong equipment at first.

Greeting,
Alco.

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hm,it's too bad,there aren't more of us flat-earth kinda guys

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naively perhaps, i was expecting a huge positive response to this idea. i expected that this forum probably has the largest number of flat earthers per pixell who would have enough enthusiasm to keep such an honest venture going. why do we expect our current dealers to offer something similar (not quite the same) when we know there is no money in it...???

sad isnt it, but as you say, life goes on. alco, many thanks for jumping in...

enjoy

ken

Don't get me wrong. I sure do think it's a good idea and I'm also sure that here on the forum we are one huge Flat-earth family.

It's just that 'out there',visiting many HiFi-stores and reading many HiFi-magazines,it seems like we flat-earthers are some kinda small,outgrowing club of weirdo's or something..

I would really like to see more shops like you discribe in this topic. In Holland you can count 'em on one hand,I guess.

O,well, who cares...
As long as we still have Naim and some good dealers,let's not worry and just enjoy the music.

Alco.

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As long as we still have Naim and some good dealers,let's not worry and just enjoy the music.

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holland is a bit too far for me to come in search of good dealers !!!

no, seriously, i agree with the thrust of what you say, many thanks

enjoy

ken

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i could even link up with one of those up market coffee chains... or would this lead to dilution of purpose?

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Actually, you might make some money that way!

On a similar note, I had an idea while waiting for a flight.

Why not have Naim Show rooms in the Duty Free area of airport terminals? Talk about having captive wealthy audiences!!!

You would still have to have a projector in the room, showing the flight departure status. Without it you would probably have customer missing their flights.

Anyone up for the idea?

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

enjoy

ken

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Actually - maybe it would be a worth venture in which to throw away some money.

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"throw away" money doesnt sound like a good idea. you dont think this kyte will fly then, in spite of all the business that you will throw my way???

enjoy

ken

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I'll probably be jeered off the forum

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boooooooooooo !!!!

enjoy

ken

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if i were to open a specialist hifi shop that (a) allows customers to compare turntables, tone arms, cartridges, and (b) allows customers to compare equipment supports (c) sells good vinyl, including used.. (NO CD)

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I have thought about doing a similar thing. What I wanted to do was to run a very upmarket record shop and stock a very limited range of mainly used hi-fi products. Trouble is I can make a better living getting absolutely bored rigid in lower end of the IT industry.

The concept:

• New vinyl: Primarily jazz, though some well chosen titles from other genres. Bottom line is I would only stock stuff I liked or respected. The whole credibility of the shop would be its impeccable taste - customers should be laughed out of a shop for asking for a Simply Red album. The stock would include as many good audiophile pressings as I could find, though again only of good music, Alto Analogue, Classic Records, DCC, Speakers Corner, plus current Blue Note, Impulse, Atlantic pressings etc. Mail order too, trying to undercut Vivante and Diverse a little (I am convinced this is possible!).

• Second hand vinyl: Again primarily jazz, as much as I could find, offer good trade in prices on good original pressings compared to competition. Records would be properly wet vacuum cleaned prior to sale and sold in decent inner and outer sleeves. Prices would definitely be "audiophile", but so would service and quality.

• Second hand hi-fi: Only high quality stuff, though not necessarily expensive. Probably specialising in classic 1980s vinyl based flat earth, as it is what I know the best, and is also what I consider the best value for money. May stock some classic stuff too, Garrard 301 / Radford / Quad etc, though no cheap junk or US high end crap. Would not exclude quality CD players (i.e. try to attract people who wanted to sell their vinyl collections!).

• New hi-fi: Cartridges and phono accessories, plus full servicing / upgrading of vinyl source components. I am not convinced I would want to be anything remotely similar to a conventional dealer, and would certainly not want to be a 'one brand' shop or tie into any manufacturers particular ideology - i.e. "If you want to stock this part of our range, then you must stock these as well…". No chance, I would only stock what I wanted.

  Later when the shop brand name had established itself, I might be interested in producing a cult small speaker!
  
  

• Musical instruments: Just a few interesting vintage analogue synths, guitars etc, old habits die hard!

I used to work in a small second hand keyboard shop that shared a location with a open plan café / bistro, this worked very well for both businesses, and it is an idea that would possibly work even better with a record / hi-fi shop. The café would be run by another business. There would obviously be jazz vinyl playing in the shop / café through a pair of Isobariks to set the scene, and if the size was sufficient it could be used as an occasional jazz venue.

My guess is that with a large enough catchment area and low enough shop rent it would be possible to scrape a living doing this. This idea rests entirely on being able to source enough quality second hand records and hi-fi (this is definitely the hard bit), this would be what made people travel to the shop. It is something I would love to do, but very much doubt I could get to pay. Lets be honest, I would keep all the good records (just like I did the last time!).

Tony.

the idea was to offer what no other hifi shop provides -- thereby giving me the edge. however, one needs loyal customer base for this. given that i would be sufficiently stocked to demo fram equipment racks to turntables arms cartridges, etc -- the shop would very quickly bleed to death if it was used as a demo base rather than as place to buy things -- this could be tricky.

jonathan, this is more than a thought experiment -- its part of a genuine research, if i had enough replies like your earlier one pledging your loyalty -- i would seriously consider the next step.

enjoy

ken

Tony, I don't think restricting the vinyl selection the way you propose would be good. You would get many more people coming in with a high quality selection of records of all genres, and could pull some music lovers into good audio if your selection was good enough.

--Eri

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quote:
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I'll probably be jeered off the forum
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boooooooooooo !!!!

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Wait a minute - are there any women present at this stoning?"

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

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The Analog Room

Though I am not recommending this shop, The Analog Room in San Jose is precisely what you have described, Ken. Large used vinyl, Rega, Linn, SME, VPI, Basis, Oracle for tables, Graham, SME, Rega for arms, half a dozen cartridge lines, and the stuff is actually set up for listening.

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eric, many thanks. what a nice name too, "analgue room". as a matter of interest, how long has that shop been running for?

i think tony L meant it as a passing joke but i would not laugh anyone with simply red out of the shop. my sister in law likes that kind of music, (and she is a beautiful woman) so have to be careful...

the thing to do is to be sufficiently selective, but no more so...

enjoy

ken

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Tony, I don't think restricting the vinyl selection the way you propose would be good. You would get many more people coming in with a high quality selection of records of all genres, and could pull some music lovers into good audio if your selection was good enough.

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I used to work in a small record shop that dealt almost exclusively in rock, and indie stuff. It was about 60/40 second hand vs. new, and I am convinced that we did far better by being a specialist than by attempting to be a jack of all trades. If you have seen the film High Fidelity, it was like a smaller, dingier version of that, and with more sarcasm. This was the best job I have ever had from a job satisfaction perspective - basically you sit around all day playing music and taking the piss out of other peoples musical taste, plus get first refusal on any vinyl coming into the shop. The pay is absolute crap, but its great fun socially.

It is the specialist shops that I remember, if I am in London and want to buy some jazz, then it is Ray's Jazz Shop, and Honest Jon's that come to mind, not the jack of all trade second hand shops, though they may well have some bargains in amongst the rest. If time is at a precedent I will only do Ray's etc. I am sure people come from all over the country to buy at either of these shops, it is this market that I would want to compete in. I am convinced it is best to decide on a market and then cater for it exclusively. There are far to many second hand record shops where the vast majority of vinyl is absolutely worthless from any perspective, not just mine. I would simply refuse to buy in or exchange junk. Same would go for hi-fi.

Tony.

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If you ever really think of taking the step, my services (I have some knowledge of retail, logistics and a few other things) would be available FOC (when not earning my crust) for such a heroic venture.

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jonathan, many thanks. i will bear that in mind. you have just given me another thought though, a very interesting thought.

i like tony L's view on location -- even this has to make some statement.

but as i say, the response from this esteemed forum is less enthusiastic than i thought, so will tread with extreme care and not allow my immedaite emotions too much sway.

how many NAP500's do you think we will sell per month?? and we would NEVER EVER have a situation where a NAP500 that we sell doesnt play music in the customers home!!! i simply cannot stomach this...

enjoy

ken

Based on my own experiences I think I have the answer. You set up your dream shop with all the vinyl, Naim, coffee etc and also a mail order box shifting business round the back - no listening to any of that stuff allowed.

It may sound odd but this combination has been my approach to purchase. For example, I spent about a month, many years ago, and drank about a gallon of their ghastly old slot machined "coffee" before I eventually bought a Lingo (cheap) off Grahams.

The reasons I demmed like this were three fold - One, I was a student then and had a lot of spare time on my hands, two, Grahams had better equipment to listen to than I did, three, I used to enjoy their faces and quasi-polite remarks when I made them play some real bass-heavy reggae numbers instead of Mozart.

But in the end I bought quite a lot of hi-end gear off them and still do - although I spread my net to other dealers and the classifieds. Had Grahams been nearer my home/work and not gone all posh/lush AV fun palace with Loewe TVs all over the place I would have stayed with them with more enthusiasm. It is taking AV seriously, as a means to seriously fleece Porche driving idiots who collect badges, that I hate. Nonetheless it took little time to realise that DVD was rather better than VHS so I wanted some sort of home flea pit.

So, and this brings me to point, I read What Home Cinama Hi Fi Record Choice and bought a few 5 star boxes as cheaply as I possibly could. I had no desire to audition the stuff. I plugged it all into the telly and for what it is and what it cost I am not disappointed.

I cannot be alone in behaving this way - so set up your dream shop and box shift round the back. Just don't get stuck in that ghastly Bose, B&O, B&W aluminium baffle bollocks middle ground.

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Trouble is I can make a better living getting absolutely bored rigid in lower end of the IT industry.

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And then be able to pay for the decent system at home!

On the subject of specialisation, providing the AV stuff doesn't have an adverse effect on the dealers commitment / abilities for the high-end stuff I don't have a problem with that if it keeps him in business.

My (very good) dealer sees the home cinema as a good potential long term business, and it would appear that a greater proportion of 'the general public' are prepared to pay a lot of money in this area.

If it allows the dealer to introduce customers to real Hi-Fi it can only be a bonus.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com