Brown screws himself !

Mike,

You're not trying to pretend you didn't classify her? Or that having classified her you then went on to use this classification as an explanation of her alleged inability to express herself clearly, thereby implying that other 'ordinary uneducated pensioners' were also likely to be inarticulate?

I don't think acknowledging peoples racial or social background constitutes prejudice. Using it to predict their abilities - or explain their alleged failings might though.

Oh sorry, you wrote '-end of-' didn't you. You must be right after all.

Lontano,

I don't agree with you, but you obviously hate Brown so much I won't try to argue with you.

David

David Scott? and lutyens,

Certain areas of the UK have levels of immigration - family, friends, fellow national, government 'policy' ... - that the rest just don't experience. If such an area's resources are already stretched, chances are there will be a reduction in service seen by the individual; it's a matter of numbers. Those in the area will have valid concerns that should not be discounted because of opportunism by right wing tabloids and the BNP, nor because of the rest of the UK's lack of experience/empathy.

I dislike both the right leaning press' exploitation and the shooting down by centre/left publications of those who question an immigration free for all, man made climate change ...

Migration:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=260

Cheers,
OW

quote:

an immigration free for all

OW,

Don't you think it weakens your case to use terms like this?

Particularly when the link you posted shows a drop in net immigration?

David

quote:

If such an area's resources are already stretched, chances are there will be a reduction in service seen by the individual; it's a matter of numbers. Those in the area will have valid concerns

That's true. But how big a problem is this? How do we distinguish it from a decline in service for other reasons that's wrongly attributed to immigration? There's so much prejudiced bullshit flying about that it's very hard to get any accurate impression of how far immigration is actually a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:

quote:

an immigration free for all

OW,

Don't you think it weakens your case to use terms like this?

Particularly when the link you posted shows a drop in net immigration?

David

David,

Restrictions for those from the EU?

The link is in response to lutyens posting of:

I would suggest that it is a fairly well established fact now that there are less people coming into the country than are going to other countries.

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:


She's a bigot. As she lives in country full of bigots with a press that promotes bigoted and prejudiced delusions as legitimate concerns it may not be altogether her fault. But she is a bigot.

David

Do you live in Rochdale?

I did some years ago and I can tell you it was hard to imagine you were in England. In fact, the town centre on Saturday had become a no-go zone as the Asians claimed it for their own. Calm down before you explode David, I am not a bigot or a racist - I am all for integration of foreign immigrants.

But look at that word carefully - integration. It's not happening.

I have to be honest David, people like you scare me to death.

Ian

quote:

the town centre on Saturday had become a no-go zone as the Asians claimed it for their own

quote:

I am not a bigot or a racist

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:

That's true. But how big a problem is this? How do we distinguish it from a decline in service for other reasons that's wrongly attributed to immigration? There's so much prejudiced bullshit flying about that it's very hard to get any accurate impression of how far immigration is actually a problem.[/QUOTE]

Start on a council by council basis; what are the frontline services saying to the council, the council to the Government, budget size, cost of provision...? If those with vaild concerns are heard, we may get to the truth.

For the record, on one side I am: Chinese and Indian with a little Portuguese thrown in. To me it is a matter of total population and resource by area and nation of the UK.

Time for tea and football (to annoy winkyincanada more - watching rather than playing).

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Originally posted by ianmacd:
In fact, the town centre on Saturday had become a no-go zone as the Asians claimed it for their own. Calm down before you explode David, I am not a bigot or a racist - I am all for integration of foreign immigrants.

But look at that word carefully - integration. It's not happening.

I have to be honest David, people like you scare me to death.

Ian

LOL

You scare very easily.

Are you really scared by Asians shopping.

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:

quote:

an immigration free for all

OW,

Don't you think it weakens your case to use terms like this?

Particularly when the link you posted shows a drop in net immigration?

David

its to late for a drop the damage is done we are swamped.

Does anyone seriously think Cameron is more sincere in his "man of the common people" schtick?

last week I met...

The only difference is Cameron hasn't been caught out.

As for the woman's comments - I see an undercurrent of bigotry and xenophobia. Frankly I wish politicians would challenge these claims more openly (so Brown is guilty of hypocrisy in this respect).

Bloody hell she wasted no time getting a PR firm in did she?

quote:

Originally posted by ianmacd:

quote:

Originally posted by David Scott?:


She's a bigot. As she lives in country full of bigots with a press that promotes bigoted and prejudiced delusions as legitimate concerns it may not be altogether her fault. But she is a bigot.

David

Do you live in Rochdale?

I did some years ago and I can tell you it was hard to imagine you were in England. In fact, the town centre on Saturday had become a no-go zone as the Asians claimed it for their own. Calm down before you explode David, I am not a bigot or a racist - I am all for integration of foreign immigrants.

But look at that word carefully - integration. It's not happening.

I have to be honest David, people like you scare me to death.

Ian

You think that's bad, its now home to Pink Fish!

what a load of bollocks. What have any one of you said in private that you are glad a mic was not attached too?

Its not like he called her a twat was it.

quote:

Originally posted by OscillateWildly:

Time for tea and football (to annoy winkyincanada more - watching rather than playing).

Interesting about that interview. My wife who's an OB/GYN recently treated a patient in her practice who moved from Britain. She is a nurse and her husband another professional. Her comment to my wife: (paraphrasing)

"When we lived in Britain both of us quit our jobs because we were able to live about the same with our government checks as we were after paying taxes from our earned income."

This type of stuff is ruining both the US and the UK and will never end. People bilking the system while those of us who pay taxes get stiffed more and more. I always knew this existed and was widespread in Britain as it was in the US and now I have heard it from the horses mouth.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
what a load of bollocks. What have any one of you said in private that you are glad a mic was not attached too?

Very true. And sadly, this election's now come down to assessing the candidates on the basis of such trivia rather than on their policies.

Personally, I don't give a toss that Brown's a belligerent bully, nor that Cameron's a jumped up snobby ex-Etonian.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
Its not like he called her a twat was it.

Apparently the mike was turned off by then.

He's gone, finished, the end of Gordon - no more will he hear somebody telling him you could be Prime Minister .... any Gord to show there is no hard feelings please click here for a cheery Moody Blues song

quote:

.. this election's now come down to assessing the candidates on the basis of such trivia rather than on their policies.

is there a difference?

Tis funny how the likes of "poor old Mrs Duffy" think that complaining about all those East European's invading the country is perfectly ok
Yet she is insulted when she is described (entirely accurately) as a bigot.

Brown know's she's a bigot (like far too many of her generation) ...I know she's a bigot ....the media know's she's a bigot ...yet all that happens is that the predominately right wing leader writers will simply screw Brown for days over an off the cuff (yet essentially true comment)

And I thought the USA was bad .........

Hi OW
sorry been cycling home from work and swearing at taxi drivers........( pick your own stereotype )
I stand corrected, and I apolgise ........( I obviously have fallen for a different propaganda) and would like to plead that I misunderstood the question in the melee of a forum discussion.
However I think the other point you are highlighting is that in certain areas of the country there has been a significant influx of immigrants which has put a strain on local services and that the 'local' population has 'suffered' from a reduction of so called frontline services. I don't dispute that services may have become strained but that can happen from new housing being built,( no S106 contributions don't always solve this immediately), or a factory opening or closing . Therefore I don't blame immigration per se for straining those services. Allowing this belief to be the basis of an objection to immigration is also, in my view, unacceptable too.

There is a discussion to be had about peoples fears on this matter but it is doubtful in the current political environment ( not just the election one )that it can be had in any 'educational' sense. I live in Lewisham and we have a BNP candidate for Mayor. Her, for it is a she, her comments/questions in her leaflet are of much same tone and texture as those raised in Brown's 'chat' and that is dispiriting. Standing on Loampit Vale and protesting at the BNP in 197* seems a very long time ago and yet far too close suddenly.

Now where was that cup of tea?

james

quote:

Originally posted by Jet Johnson:
Tis funny how the likes of "poor old Mrs Duffy" think that complaining about all those East European's invading the country is perfectly ok
Yet she is insulted when she is described (entirely accurately) as a bigot.

Brown know's she's a bigot (like far too many of her generation) ...I know she's a bigot ....the media know's she's a bigot ...yet all that happens is that the predominately right wing leader writers will simply screw Brown for days over an off the cuff (yet essentially true comment)

And I thought the USA was bad .........

Fair or not the voting public will not necessarily judge Mr Brown on his record, which should discount him from ever holding public office again if examined dispassionately.

Examining his record is enough for any fairly non-politcal [or party-partisan] person to breath a sigh of relief at the media "hoo-hah," which will hopefully further reduce the Labour vote enough to preventing him remaining PM.

I don't care much for any of the potential candidates [for PM] and will vote in any way that reduces Brown's chance of being actually returned as PM. Not much could be worse for the country.

So roll on the Brown media-thrashing, as it can only help the future of the country. Fair or unfair in the method, the result is far too imporant to be so scrupulous at this time.

ATB from George

George,

I would be genuinely interested to read a very direct point by point statement of what you think Brown has done that is so bad. I mean an actual point by point record of his decisions and actions. I really struggle to understand why people think so badly of him and you can express yourself very clearly when you want to, so I'd like to read what you think.

quote:

This type of stuff is ruining both the US and the UK and will never end.

Surely something can't go on being ruined for ever? One would expect it to arrive at a point at which it finally was ruined and that would be that.