Brown screws himself !

George, we are all ears, but if you want a hand just ask.
I guess the Brown "prudence" years & failing to fix the roof in the good times & leaving us with a god knows what largest ever known hole in the piggy bank might just be on your list.

The list starts with Private Pensions, and that was rather short sighted given that the Pension situation is the elephant in the room that no one is prepared to mention in the public finances. The old are getting more in number, but we could do without a Trident replacement, or two fantastic aircraft carriers ... [etc], and end with the incredible public deficit that has occurred because the banks went wrong. Now the banks, Brown was proud to announce, were being subject to a light touch regulatory regimen, and that was IMO a derogation of his responsibility as Chancellor.

In the midst of making such daft decisions, he sold a vast part of the national gold reserve at the bottom of the market.

No this man is incapable of seeing his own faults, or even seeing that he has been wrong in almost every decision he has made since coming to office, first as Chancellor and then as PM

He must go, even if I would not call him a man lacking integrity.

But integrity is not enough to be considered for being the Prime Minister, IMO

I could enlarge on this, but it is late. I am happy. I have upgraded my Carlton with a 1930s racing handle-bar, and had two bottle of beer! I need to have a bath and sleep shortly, but nothing in brown's leadership leads me to think that his return to office would be anything else than an utter catastrophe.

If he get back in, I bet that I shall become a casualty of the inevitable economic melt-down that will occur as the pigeons of over borrowing and a public sector that is now more than half the gross value of the economy come home to roost.

I would emigrate and leave the mess to those with less sense of wanting to spend my own money, rather than have Mr. Brown spend half of it for me.

He has to go, almost however Machiavellian the methods employed by the Press to ensure this, as the majority of voters do not vote on the issues [even where the issue is clear cut] but on personality.

ATB from George

I do say sorry for the uncorrected spelling mistakes above, but I have had one heck of an evening sorting out and testing the Carlton, and the first bottle of beer [Becks, unusually for me] has worked wonders on my eyes - not!

Best wishes from George

you left out letting the country be flooded with immigrants.

quote:

Originally posted by 151:
you left out letting the country be flooded with immigrants.

Wasn't that David Blunket's doing, the "only 14,000 a year" man ?

quote:

Originally posted by 151:
you left out letting the country be flooded with immigrants.

shouldn't that be "letting certain areas of the country be flooded with immigrants thus exceeding the capacity of local services to the detriment of the indigenous population"


Willy.

quote:

Originally posted by Jet Johnson:
Tis funny how the likes of "poor old Mrs Duffy" think that complaining about all those East European's invading the country is perfectly ok
Yet she is insulted when she is described (entirely accurately) as a bigot.

Brown know's she's a bigot (like far too many of her generation) ...I know she's a bigot ....the media know's she's a bigot ...yet all that happens is that the predominately right wing leader writers will simply screw Brown for days over an off the cuff (yet essentially true comment)

And I thought the USA was bad .........

shes a bigot because she dares to speak the truth,the country has been flooded with immigrants thanks to the labour party.

quote:

Originally posted by 151:

quote:

Originally posted by Jet Johnson:
Tis funny how the likes of "poor old Mrs Duffy" think that complaining about all those East European's invading the country is perfectly ok
Yet she is insulted when she is described (entirely accurately) as a bigot.

Brown know's she's a bigot (like far too many of her generation) ...I know she's a bigot ....the media know's she's a bigot ...yet all that happens is that the predominately right wing leader writers will simply screw Brown for days over an off the cuff (yet essentially true comment)

And I thought the USA was bad .........

shes a bigot because she dares to speak the truth,the country has been flooded with immigrants thanks to the labour party.

It is possible to speak the 'truth' and still be bigotted.

Plus, where people get 'truth' from on issues like immigration that have a such vast number of variables, many modes of interpretation and an enormous emotional content and context has always puzzled me.

One person's fact is another's prejudice and another's reasonable statement is yet another's pinko-commie uber-liberal drivel.

people en masse, ie, election lead up time, are twats and herd animals; mob-think at it's worst and we have but ourselves to blame.

In other words whatever the outcome, we're all f&^"ed.

The only real question remaining is, to what degree?

I would put my head in the sand, but I fear it may soon be taxed. And in any case some flappy skirted busybody loon will zoom over and tell me I need certification to do so as mummy state says it is notsafenotsafenotsafe....

My contribution to the ever madder English nonsense politics.

I shall now retire to weep for our descendants.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. All those attacking Brown in the media and on this forum should take a good, long look at themselves. Glass houses, stones and all that.

Everyone has done this at some time or another. All of us. I'm sure Clegg and "Call me Dave" Cameron are just as guilty of it. Brown just got caught.

Sure, the gaffe isn't pleasant, but there are plenty of other things to pull Brown up on. It's just a pity that it was such a gift to the right-wing Press.

The gaffe is symbolic more than anything - after the expenses scandal, it strengthens the feeling that politicians have utter contempt for the public.

And as one blogger out it: "Duffy herself could not have been better picked: retired, widowed, working class and eloquent - she is perfect for the tabloids. Perhaps they created her out of stem cells."

And Duffy is no saint. Her comments (for which she supplied no evidence, statistical or otherwise) - "All these eastern Europeans that are coming in - where are they flocking from?" - was iffy at best. Immigration is definitely a problem that people are afraid to talk about openly but reading Duffy's comments I felt a bit uncomfortable, I have to say.

dayjarvoo.

An observation from the perspective of the press.

Browns cock up yesterday is on the front page of every newspaper and news broadcast in the UK and has probably also been shown abroad.

I started to look at the newpapers on the NET and ,lo and behold the Mirror makes no mention of it whatsoever .so perhaps is did'nt happen.Unfortunately their blind readership has the same voting power as the rest of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin-W:

And Duffy is no saint. Her comments (for which she supplied no evidence, statistical or otherwise) - "All these eastern Europeans that are coming in - where are they flocking from?" - was iffy at best. Immigration is definitely a problem that people are afraid to talk about openly but reading Duffy's comments I felt a bit uncomfortable, I have to say.

Perhaps Gordon should have replied “When did your descendants flock to this country”

From Wikipedia,

Duffy is a surname of Irish origin. It comes from the original Irish name Ó Dubhthaigh, meaning descendant or grandson of Dubhthach. Dubhthach was an Old Irish first name meaning "Dark one".

quote:

Originally posted by WhatYouSeeandHear:
An observation from the perspective of the press.

Browns cock up yesterday is on the front page of every newspaper and news broadcast in the UK and has probably also been shown abroad.

I started to look at the newpapers on the NET and ,lo and behold the Mirror makes no mention of it whatsoever .so perhaps is did'nt happen.Unfortunately their blind readership has the same voting power as the rest of us.

Yes ignoring "Duffygate" was dumb of the Mirror ...but the other papers are so fair and balanced aren't they? .....Clegg gives a very decent account of himself during the first leadership debate only to find himself attacked from all sides of the predominately right wing media for daring to appear to (mebbe's)be able to swing the Tory vote to his party .....cue blind terror from the Sun, Mail, Express etc who promptly tried openly to assassinate his character across their front pages.

I know all modern newspapers have a political agenda but has it ever been so brazen and nasty as it is right now?

The News Papers do seem more than usually partisan this time. Perhaps getting older, I have gradually reached a point where I believe very little in print these days! So it seems more extreme - more ridiculous - than before. I don't know really. Perspective with hindsight may be valuable in really assessing this.

ATB from George

Be careful fatcat, it is most likely that when Mrs Duffy's ancestors came over that this country were ruling Ireland & it was de facto an integral part of the political GB

quote:

Originally posted by Mike-B:
integral part of the political GB

Aren't GB and eastern Europian countries part of the Europian Community

quote:

Brown just got caught.

That's the point - he's stupid, he's an embarrassment IMHO.

Still the great debate continues tonight - Brown, Cameron & Clegg could be the new CS&N.

quote:

Brown, Cameron & Clegg could be the new CS&N

Add Crazy Horse Farage & we have the full band line up

quote:

I know all modern newspapers have a political agenda but has it ever been so brazen and nasty as it is right now?

Well, I suspect it might just be enough to counterbalance the Beeb's apparently left wing bias.

I learnt a long time ago to take newspapers and the other "media" with a large pinch of salt. On almost every occasion where something that I have intimate knowledge of or have been involved in has been reported, they get it wrong!

quote:

Originally posted by lutyens:
Hi OW
sorry been cycling home from work and swearing at taxi drivers........( pick your own stereotype )
I stand corrected, and I apolgise ........( I obviously have fallen for a different propaganda) and would like to plead that I misunderstood the question in the melee of a forum discussion.
However I think the other point you are highlighting is that in certain areas of the country there has been a significant influx of immigrants which has put a strain on local services and that the 'local' population has 'suffered' from a reduction of so called frontline services. I don't dispute that services may have become strained but that can happen from new housing being built,( no S106 contributions don't always solve this immediately), or a factory opening or closing . Therefore I don't blame immigration per se for straining those services. Allowing this belief to be the basis of an objection to immigration is also, in my view, unacceptable too.

There is a discussion to be had about peoples fears on this matter but it is doubtful in the current political environment ( not just the election one )that it can be had in any 'educational' sense. I live in Lewisham and we have a BNP candidate for Mayor. Her, for it is a she, her comments/questions in her leaflet are of much same tone and texture as those raised in Brown's 'chat' and that is dispiriting. Standing on Loampit Vale and protesting at the BNP in 197* seems a very long time ago and yet far too close suddenly.

Now where was that cup of tea?

james

Hello James,

Cycling in London, brave man.

Agree there are other factors and blaming immigration for everything is wrong. Poor management of all the elements is my culprit.

Re discussion, again agreed; one side stoking the fire, the other having a pop at anyone putting their head above the parapet.

Cheers,
OW

quote:

Interesting about that interview. My wife who's an OB/GYN recently treated a patient in her practice who moved from Britain. She is a nurse and her husband another professional. Her comment to my wife: (paraphrasing)

"When we lived in Britain both of us quit our jobs because we were able to live about the same with our government checks as we were after paying taxes from our earned income."

This type of stuff is ruining both the US and the UK and will never end. People bilking the system while those of us who pay taxes get stiffed more and more. I always knew this existed and was widespread in Britain as it was in the US and now I have heard it from the horses mouth.

This is very curious as a nurse's starting salary is £21,000 and a generous calculation of benefits due would give a couple who owned their own home and had two children an entitlement of £292 per week for a limited period during which they would be monitored to make sure they were looking for work before being moved onto a lower rate.
If we assumed the nurse was just starting out and her 'professional' husband was earning the same as she was - both very conservative assumptions - this couple would have been earning over £800 pounds a week before tax. Even after tax they would be very much better off working and could not possibly be said to be at risk of being caught in the welfare trap. As they were probably both earning considerably more than this ( an unpromoted nurse at the top of the pay scale gets over £27,000 and a more senior nurse can easily be well into the 30's ) the claim made above becomes even more unlikely.

Disinformation about benefits is widespread in this country - and in the US apparently - so I suspect this women was only passing on something she mistakenly believed to be the case.

Apparently Brown was upset because he thought she swore when asking 'Where are all these immigrants flocking from...'

Well looks like The Guardian of all papers now want to bury Brown as well. They are now supporting the Lib Dems . Interesting to read their thoughts on Brown and Labour in the article....

bye bye brown...

So to oust this shower - with our worn out system of first past the post - the vote [if one does not care for Nulab] should be for Conservative or Liberal. This was already my conclusion. I have to help unseat Mr Mike Foster [a proper cretin], but have to select the most likely candidate between Walker [Conservative], and the Liberals [who have not so far seen fit to let me know what they want to do in paper form].

How does one know how to vote in such a position?

I don't care to guess, and the current system makes a mockery of what the vote means. Foster could get back in if he gets 34% with the Conservatives and Liberals each getting 33% apiece!

The Guardian is right in its view. We need PR, and then we can make real decisions based on real preference - Conservative for me but accepting the majority vote - to get rid of something rather distasteful in my humble opnion.

ATB from George