Shot Policewoman suspect
Posted by: Shayman on 17 February 2006
They seem to have caught this lowlife now.... however, on the news last night they said that police had identified a suspect who was a "known armed, crack cocaine dealer in Nottingham".
Can anyone give me a good reason why the Police aren't arresting "known armed, crack cocaine dealer"s in the first place before they get chance to take pot shots at our security forces?
I'd like to think I'd be arrested immediately if I tooled myself up and headed onto the streets to sell highly dangerous drugs in the full knowledge of the Police.
Just a thought. This country etc etc
Jonathan
Can anyone give me a good reason why the Police aren't arresting "known armed, crack cocaine dealer"s in the first place before they get chance to take pot shots at our security forces?
I'd like to think I'd be arrested immediately if I tooled myself up and headed onto the streets to sell highly dangerous drugs in the full knowledge of the Police.
Just a thought. This country etc etc
Jonathan
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Mick P
Derek
The problem with doing as you suggest is that you are taking a gamble and the stake is the safety of school children who are the targets for drug dealers. This will happen whether drugs are legalised or not. I presume you do not want school children buying drugs.
Gianluigi is right when he states that these dealers need to create customers and children are an easy target.
The only cure is to ensure that dealers are taken off the streets for life so as they cannot re offend. There is no alternative.
Regards
Mick
The problem with doing as you suggest is that you are taking a gamble and the stake is the safety of school children who are the targets for drug dealers. This will happen whether drugs are legalised or not. I presume you do not want school children buying drugs.
Gianluigi is right when he states that these dealers need to create customers and children are an easy target.
The only cure is to ensure that dealers are taken off the streets for life so as they cannot re offend. There is no alternative.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by andy c
quote:Just a final thought, how many police hours would be allocated to a shooting of a police officer as opposed to the shooting say of a post master or civilian?
Mmm, IMV, and IME its about the same.
FYI stats say that early intervention in low level crime, predominantly commited by under 18's, results in 70% of offeders not re offending.
It should also be bourne in mind that all the drugs you mention have: profund effects on the body - so will affect driving behaviour; will still have to get funding from somewhere; and don't actually have to be taken by the user!
Finally, you assume the two double crewed vehicles were just after speeders: please bear in mind they may have been ANPR, they may have been looking for drink/drugs drivers etc, and also at least if the officers were stopping the motorist then the motorist would have the benefit of the officers discretion, instead of being zapped by a gatso!
andy c!
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Jo Sharp
Whilst agreeing with longer sentences for drug dealers, the problem with imposing life sentences without parole as suggested by Mick is that the dealers will do everything to avoid arrest-including use of guns against the police.
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:Originally posted by andy c:quote:Just a final thought, how many police hours would be allocated to a shooting of a police officer as opposed to the shooting say of a post master or civilian?
Mmm, IMV, and IME its about the same.
FYI stats say that early intervention in low level crime, predominantly commited by under 18's, results in 70% of offeders not re offending.
It should also be bourne in mind that all the drugs you mention have: profund effects on the body - so will affect driving behaviour; will still have to get funding from somewhere; and don't actually have to be taken by the user!
Finally, you assume the two double crewed vehicles were just after speeders: please bear in mind they may have been ANPR, they may have been looking for drink/drugs drivers etc, and also at least if the officers were stopping the motorist then the motorist would have the benefit of the officers discretion, instead of being zapped by a gatso!
andy c!
Working on the assumption that they were on the look out for drink/drugs drivers etc, surely you guys are trained to such standard that it does'nt take four bobbies possibly 5 to pull one car up?
Just seems a waste of money and resources to me.
Benefit of the officer's discretion? a guy was ticketed because he moved over a red light to let an ambulance through, interestingly last week there was a letter in our local paper from a driver apologising that in future he would not move out of the way for an ambulance, surely this case highlights the " law is an ass " argument.
How do we stop the rising crime rate? I somehow doubt that carrying on building prisons is the answer, I am affraid that in the have and have not country created by government after government that we are going to find a solution.
We could ofcourse cut the hand off a thief, the one he/she uses to wipe their backside, would that not send out some kind of warning? if not I dont know what the answer is, simply throwing people away is not working.
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by andy c
quote:Benefit of the officer's discretion? a guy was ticketed because he moved over a red light to let an ambulance through, interestingly last week there was a letter in our local paper from a driver apologising that in future he would not move out of the way for an ambulance, surely this case highlights the " law is an ass " argument.
Do you have a link to this story?
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:Originally posted by andy c:quote:Benefit of the officer's discretion? a guy was ticketed because he moved over a red light to let an ambulance through, interestingly last week there was a letter in our local paper from a driver apologising that in future he would not move out of the way for an ambulance, surely this case highlights the " law is an ass " argument.
Do you have a link to this story?
Sorry andy I do not, the actual story was in the daily or sunday mail last year sometime, but this guy writing in my local paper last week brought it back to me.
Apparently the guy was stopped at red, he heard sirens and saw the blue lights at his rear bumper, he checked the road in front and saw it was clear, so he proceeded over the other side of the lights, apparently a police car then pulled behind him and he was issued with the ticket.
So now this has just backfired, people are now going to seriously think twice before moving in future as pointed out by the guy in my local rag.
I think some common sense was called for, or discretion as you say.
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by manicatel
If it's not too far off topic,
I recently met a couple of policemen, escorting a prisoner on a plane back from tokyo to london. The prisoner had served 75% of sentance in a prison in Japan,& was being repatriated for the last part of the sentance.The crime was smuggling in a fairly small weight of marijuana.(a stupid thing to do into japan).The prisoner was young,had lost half their body-weight, & all their humanity. The policemen had been shown "how they do it in Japan".Prisoners are not allowed to talk, except for just under one hour per day.They were shown a workhouse, where inmates worked their menial tasks in silence. There were 300 prisoners, & only 2 guards, one at each end of the workshop. There were never any problems.When visitors came in the the prison, inmates had to turn & face the wall, until the visitors had passed them.One basic meal a day, no heating/electricity, & this was in a prison in Hokkaido, northern Japan, where it gets seriously cold.The japanese hosts could not understand how we allowed our jails to have tv's,librarys, let alone drugs inside. For them, jail is purely punishment, not rehab. And their re-offence rates are much lower than ours. Absolutely no "human rights"issues & Easy to make Tenko POW camp analogies, & I have no wish to offend anyone who was interned during ww2. Just to highlight an example of a society that believes in "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" mentality. I believe that the crime rate in Japan is much lower than ours.OK they do have the yakuta gangs, but not car crime, theft, drug abuse,petty violence that we seem to be suffering. Either that, or its not so publicly reported.
matt
I recently met a couple of policemen, escorting a prisoner on a plane back from tokyo to london. The prisoner had served 75% of sentance in a prison in Japan,& was being repatriated for the last part of the sentance.The crime was smuggling in a fairly small weight of marijuana.(a stupid thing to do into japan).The prisoner was young,had lost half their body-weight, & all their humanity. The policemen had been shown "how they do it in Japan".Prisoners are not allowed to talk, except for just under one hour per day.They were shown a workhouse, where inmates worked their menial tasks in silence. There were 300 prisoners, & only 2 guards, one at each end of the workshop. There were never any problems.When visitors came in the the prison, inmates had to turn & face the wall, until the visitors had passed them.One basic meal a day, no heating/electricity, & this was in a prison in Hokkaido, northern Japan, where it gets seriously cold.The japanese hosts could not understand how we allowed our jails to have tv's,librarys, let alone drugs inside. For them, jail is purely punishment, not rehab. And their re-offence rates are much lower than ours. Absolutely no "human rights"issues & Easy to make Tenko POW camp analogies, & I have no wish to offend anyone who was interned during ww2. Just to highlight an example of a society that believes in "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" mentality. I believe that the crime rate in Japan is much lower than ours.OK they do have the yakuta gangs, but not car crime, theft, drug abuse,petty violence that we seem to be suffering. Either that, or its not so publicly reported.
matt
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Derek Wright
Mick
Remove the opportunity for dealers to exist by providing drugs to addicts on prescription, the aquisition cost of drugs goes to zero so the profit for dealers disappears.
The only way school kids would get exposed to drugs would be by elder peers already on drugs. Who would have no motive apart from getting peopple to be like them ie druggies.
It would put drugs in the same position as alcohol but with some additional control.
Would it be a better way than it is at the moment? Yes - the current method of legislation and prosecution has not worked - it has created an industry and crime climate that hides under the law.
Prohibition in the US did not stop drinking - it drove it "underground"
quote:The problem with doing as you suggest is that you are taking a gamble and the stake is the safety of school children who are the targets for drug dealers. This will happen whether drugs are legalised or not. I presume you do not want school children buying drugs.
Gianluigi is right when he states that these dealers need to create customers and children are an easy target.
Remove the opportunity for dealers to exist by providing drugs to addicts on prescription, the aquisition cost of drugs goes to zero so the profit for dealers disappears.
The only way school kids would get exposed to drugs would be by elder peers already on drugs. Who would have no motive apart from getting peopple to be like them ie druggies.
It would put drugs in the same position as alcohol but with some additional control.
Would it be a better way than it is at the moment? Yes - the current method of legislation and prosecution has not worked - it has created an industry and crime climate that hides under the law.
Prohibition in the US did not stop drinking - it drove it "underground"
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Roy T
quote:Oh yeah, and two years ago some Light Infantry soldiers beat up some blokes who threw hand grenades at them. Big Deal.
Must agree with TMP on this one.
Funny how pictures of the beatings were flashed around the world in double quick time with some leaders (religious and political) being rather quick to react to this two year old news by condemning the solders. I can't recall those same leaders being as quick in condemning the insurgents as after viewing the attack where an explosive something can be clearly seen landing within the base prior to the soldiers rounding up trouble makers.
Balanced reporting or what?
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:quote:Originally posted by spartacus:
Just take a look at the actions of our armed forces in the news recently .
Lets do that.
Lets look at the actions of the late L/Cpl Allan Douglas who the residents of Al-Amarah want to make into a martyr for Islam; the example of Private Johnson Beharry and finally, bear in mind the actions of a Staffordshire Regiment Warrior Crew, when surrounded by 3-400 hostile locals. Warrior carries > rounds of 30mm ammunition and over 2000 rounds of 7.62 link. There are also up to seven "Dismount" trops in the back - Scots Guards in this incident When set upon by the crowd and petrol bombed, they did not open fire, just abandoned their burning vehicles. They could have killed hundreds in about one minute.
Oh yeah, and two years ago some Light Infantry soldiers beat up some blokes who threw hand grenades at them. Big Deal.
Dear TMP,
Hear hear. I have written to the NoTW to complain about their gratuitously stupid decision to publish this story when they did and the reply I got from those muckraking porn peddlars beggars belief, the hypocritical bastards.
Erik
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Erik
Can you post it here?
If possible I'd like to put their reply to a more DPM audience, PERSEC'd of curse.
M
Mike,
Just been looking for it but I have must have deleted it in disgust. Go to the NoTW website and e-mail your protest from there, you will probably get the same (standard) reply I got. How the NoTW can claim the moral high ground on this is repulsive in the extreme. Just look at what is happening in Iraq today re. the Iraqis breaking off cooperation with the British Army.
Regards,
Erik
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
Erik
Can you post it here?
If possible I'd like to put their reply to a more DPM audience, PERSEC'd of curse
.
M
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/letters.shtml
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by spartacus
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:quote:Originally posted by spartacus:quote:Originally posted by Mick Parry:
If a drug dealer is caught with a gun, then he should be locked up for life with no release, in other words he dies in prison irrespective of his age. That will soon send out a very sure message.
If he uses the gun to resist arrest, then the police should be allowed to kill him without any form of inquest afterwards. I have no concern about the human rights of these people but I do have concern about their victims.
Regards
Mick
I completely agree as long as the same applies to the other people who have just as much impact on our lives. Examples are the corporate criminals like maxwell, the ENRON bosses and their accountants,
How many people did they kill?quote:the people who manage our pension funds and steal our future and our childrens future,
Perhaps you could expand on that particular righteous sound bite?
Killing is not the only way of causing suffering there are more insideous and invisible ways. Maxwell caused much grief to 30,000 members of the mirror group pension scheme and the government had to bail it out with our money take a look at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1222736.stm and then the problem was left with his sons (huge moral burden) look at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/your_money/526038.stm
ENRON - 21,000 employess lost their jobs whilst the execs sold their shares just before the collapse and made a big profit. This also pulled down Andersen consulting 7,500 US jobs and 1, 500 UK jobs
Just for starters.
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by spartacus
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:quote:Originally posted by spartacus:
Just take a look at the actions of our armed forces in the news recently .
Lets do that.
Lets look at the actions of the late L/Cpl Allan Douglas who the residents of Al-Amarah want to make into a martyr for Islam; the example of Private Johnson Beharry and finally, bear in mind the actions of a Staffordshire Regiment Warrior Crew, when surrounded by 3-400 hostile locals. Warrior carries > rounds of 30mm ammunition and over 2000 rounds of 7.62 link. There are also up to seven "Dismount" trops in the back - Scots Guards in this incident When set upon by the crowd and petrol bombed, they did not open fire, just abandoned their burning vehicles. They could have killed hundreds in about one minute.
Oh yeah, and two years ago some Light Infantry soldiers beat up some blokes who threw hand grenades at them. Big Deal.
Good examples. It only goes to show that what ever group of people you choose.. police, army, black, white, chinese, catholic, muslim.... There is good and bad in all of them. I wanted to highlight the issues associated with generalising. I hope the person who shot the police officer is given what he deserves and I don't care what colour/religion/race he is!
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by spartacus
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
So, "nil", then.
Did you actually read my links?
The cynic in me thinks not...
Tarquin, why are you focussed on death? Let's think about living and how we are going to do it in a more peacfull manner. Be cool
Posted on: 19 February 2006 by Nime
T
Haven't you just proved that a vastly expensive defense vehicle is easily vulnerable to any kid with a petrol bomb?
Rather than screaming your opinions here why aren't you complaining at the apparent lack of protection offered to your ex-comrades by these vehicles? Why aren't you campaigning as loudly for fireprooof vehicles and clothing for those in the front line?
Having followed the link to the NofTW a glance at the teaser headings suggests that the NofTW has no moral ground to stand on. The shifting sands of public titillation are soon likely to lose out to online titillation. Assuming their reader-base can afford and then learn to use a computer.
Haven't you just proved that a vastly expensive defense vehicle is easily vulnerable to any kid with a petrol bomb?
Rather than screaming your opinions here why aren't you complaining at the apparent lack of protection offered to your ex-comrades by these vehicles? Why aren't you campaigning as loudly for fireprooof vehicles and clothing for those in the front line?
Having followed the link to the NofTW a glance at the teaser headings suggests that the NofTW has no moral ground to stand on. The shifting sands of public titillation are soon likely to lose out to online titillation. Assuming their reader-base can afford and then learn to use a computer.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Nime
quote:Originally posted by Tarquin Maynard-Portly:
I see two young men on fire.
So do I. How badly damaged were they? Lightly? Cost of repair? Downtime? Spares? Short and long term maintenance costs?
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Basil
"I see two young men on fire."
I see two soldiers, doing what soldiers a paid to do.
I see two soldiers, doing what soldiers a paid to do.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Basil
Who's "Bazz"?
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by andy c
Back on topic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4731052.stm
Also, I don't think any speed camera's were involved!
andy c!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4731052.stm
Also, I don't think any speed camera's were involved!
andy c!
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Basil
"A spokeswoman for Nottinghamshire Police said Pc Bown is making a good recovery from her second operation."
That is good news.
That is good news.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:Originally posted by Nime:
T
Haven't you just proved that a vastly expensive defense vehicle is easily vulnerable to any kid with a petrol bomb?
Rather than screaming your opinions here why aren't you complaining at the apparent lack of protection offered to your ex-comrades by these vehicles? Why aren't you campaigning as loudly for fireprooof vehicles and clothing for those in the front line?
Having followed the link to the NofTW a glance at the teaser headings suggests that the NofTW has no moral ground to stand on. The shifting sands of public titillation are soon likely to lose out to online titillation. Assuming their reader-base can afford and then learn to use a computer.
The lack of protection is down to money as always, makes me piss sick when I see pictures such as them posted yet in the sunday mail yesterday it is announced that every governmental minister is to be given a brand new jaguar free of charge, not just tony bliar or gordon brown, but every minister, how much is this going to total in outlay to the tax payer? £50000.00 a piece!
How much protection equipment would this money buy? I would hazard a guess at quite enough.
It's the same old story that the ones at the top of the ladder get ideas that their lives are more valuable than a squaddy being shot at or his vehicle getting petrol bombed, politics is corrupt, I realised this a long time ago, now its coming to fruition.
As for the notw, that comic has a reputation as it is, think of hillsborough and you will know what I mean, its sister paper printed the biggest pack of lies in 1989, it seems nothing changes in their quest to sell papers.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:Originally posted by Basil:
"I see two young men on fire."
I see two soldiers, doing what soldiers a paid to do.
And that's the attitude that makes squaddies wonder why the fuck they bother.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by Van the man
quote:Originally posted by andy c:
Back on topic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/4731052.stm
Also, I don't think any speed camera's were involved!
andy c!
I hope she recovers from this awful incident.
But I still think the arrest would not have been so quick had it been joe public, yet again the stops are pulled when its one of their own.
Posted on: 20 February 2006 by erik scothron
quote:Originally posted by Basil:
"I see two young men on fire."
I see two soldiers, doing what soldiers a paid to do.
In all my time in the Army I never heard of anyone being paid to be burnt.