Left Handed Instruments ...

Two pianists definately often used their own pianos: Horowitz, and Solomon.

To some extent if an organist is resident then the instrument becomes his or hers, just as much as a great 250 year old Strad ever beomes a violinist's own.

Here with organs I am thinking of Helmut Walcha who played a relatively small number of organs, and knew them very well indeed. This shows in the way he gets the results he does, even from modest resources.

The exeption to this may be the late DG Archiv recordings in stereo, where some very strange decisions were made about the organs used. As instruments I think the Cappel and Lubeck organs were more suitable, and produced clearer recordings in spite of the old recording technologies involved. This is not to say that the bigger recorded perspective of the late recording style is not fine, but I prefer the intimacy particularly achieved a Cappel Parish Church, or the splendid lucidness in a larger space achieved in Lubeck Dom on a instrument that history tells that Bach was aquainted with himself! Of course not quite in the form recorded, as the additions to it carried right on until the 1930s...

ATB from Fredrik

The Organ at Cappel built in Bach's time:

Thanks Fredrik for your reply ...

My argument is that with piano / organ you are stuck with 'right handed' instruments but if you have your own instrument [say a double bass {smiley}] and you are left handed then you could have it strung for left-handed playing...

James H

P.S, I am right-handed and am learning the piano ...

ends

The "Small" Organ at Lubeck, started in about 1475!



ATB from Fredrik

Dear James,

With stringed instruments the whole instrument must be made left handed, as the bass bar and sound post propping the table [front] up must be reversed to carry to strings in mirror. It has been done, and there used to be a left handed viola player working in London in the 1960s who was famously photographed on the front of the HMV album of Barbirill's recording of Elgar's Introduction and Allego, but which image I cannot find! It is rather rare though.

ATB from Fredrik

PS: The great pianist Clara Haskil was left handed, and in some ways it shows. Her Mozartian bass-lines are not "mere effects" as Richard Strauss refered to them!

quote:

The only instrument I know is the piano [and it is sort of curious that the piano and the organ are probably the only instruments where the player never [?] uses his/her own at concerts].

While, for obvious reasons, this is mostly true of organs (I say mostly as you do get electronic ones as had to be used for some years in Edinburgh's Usher Hall while the main one was out of commission, so it's just possible their own one could be used), many pianists use their own pianos and have them moved around. Fredrik mentions Horowitz and Solomon, but I'm sure there are plenty of pianists today (Zimmerman, for one, according to Google) who do it (and I'm sure I've heard some good anecdotes revolving around the problems involved, but can't recall them right now - though I found a reference on google to an occasion where a piano was lost overboard in a Chinese harbour whilst being transferred from the ship).

Actually, there was a very interesting segment on yesterday's CD Review about the new 're-performance' of Glenn Gould's 1955 Goldberg Variations. One of the people made the point that a pianist will play differently depending on the piano in use (so had Gould been playing the Yamaha used for these performances he wouldn't have hit the keys the same was as on the original piano).

Actually, there is a fair amount of snobbery about pianos. I was at a concert a few years back and I heard the lady behind me mutter something along the lines of "I see they only have a Yamaha here, that's not very good." Personally, I was a little relieved as I don't much care for the rather metallic sound of many Steinways.

Of course it isn't always the case. There was a nice anecdote I heard on the radio last year (as part of the Miles Davis 80th anniversary celebrations) about who Herbie Hancock's eyes would light up whenever at the various European halls they visited at the wonderful pianos they had but, given where Davis was going at the time, he would always insist Hancock played keyboards instead (I think it was Hancock, but I'm happy to be corrected).

regards, tam

Didn't Jimi Hendrix play his guitar upside down because he was left handed? I don't know if he could have got a left-handed guitar, but it didn't seem too much of a handicap.

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:

Actually, there is a fair amount of snobbery about pianos. I was at a concert a few years back and I heard the lady behind me mutter something along the lines of "I see they only have a Yamaha here, that's not very good." Personally, I was a little relieved as I don't much care for the rather metallic sound of many Steinways.

As a pianist with decades of performing and recording experience on all manner of pianos and piano-shaped furniture, my experience is that just as there are some wonderful humans named Larry, there are also despicable humans named Larry. I've played wonderful, or despicable, pianos named Steinway, Baldwin, Yamaha, Grotrian, Bosendorfer, and Kawai, as well as those with other names.

Although I personally prefer a Steinway, I will say that of all the brands of piano, Yamaha is the most consistent out of the box. Most recording studios these days have a Yamaha because of its inherent consistency and relative ease of maintenance. There is definitely a lot of snobbery about pianos, much of it based on nonsense. Obviously, I'd rather have a really great Yamaha as opposed to a horrendous Steinway.

That said, the best pianos I've ever played have all been Hamburg Steinways. I own a small New York Steinway, and I love it. Believe me, there is nothing inherently metallic about the tone of a Steinway. Quite the opposite, if anything; the best Steinways have a rich, warm, poetic sound. In the end, though, it all depends on the personal tastes of a given piano's owner and its technician ... just about any piano can be made to sound however one wants.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Didn't Jimi Hendrix play his guitar upside down because he was left handed? I don't know if he could have got a left-handed guitar, but it didn't seem too much of a handicap.

rotf, yes, jimi played his strat "upside down," but restrung so the fingering was "normal." certain guitarists (albert king?) played plain old upside down (gibson fling v). such practices, and odd tunings, can make for a very iconoclstic style of playing. i myself am left-handed but play normally, which is the usual practice. theoretically a leftie would have different strengths, but discussion of that is for another thread... in any case, one usually decides this practice (whether to "flip" or just play like the righties) early in one's music career, and it is often difficult for children to get "leftie" instruments.

however, one can buy an off the shelf guitar that is "mirror image," that is, completely opposite so it appears "normal" to a leftie. just jammed w/ a guy last week w/ two such guitars. not sure jimi could've gotten one back in the '60s, though (off the shelf, that is -- but he certainly could've had one made, and preferred to play his own style - upside down).

there is anecdotal info that macca chose the german hofner bass he used for all the early beatles stuff bcs. it could be easily "flipped," that is, restrung for true left-hand play, as the bass was symmetrical.

fredrik is correct that a classical stringed instrument cannot be easily played "upside down," or "flipped" and indeed i cannot recall the last time i have seen this - although it must be done on occasion, it is discouraged by the classical formula (for example, where would you sit in the violin section??), so is rare.

It's an interesting point about pianos and not something I have thought about before. I wonder if there would be any advantage to a left-handed player if the keyboard was reversed (bass to treble running right to left)?

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
Didn't Jimi Hendrix play his guitar upside down because he was left handed? I don't know if he could have got a left-handed guitar, but it didn't seem too much of a handicap.

I always understood that Hendrix's was a standard (right hand) instrument, but strung as a left-hander.

Whereas, for example, King of the Surf Guitar Dick Dale played a conventionally-strung right-handed guitar 'upside down'. This, I am sure, must have added to his characteristic sound (go and listen to Misirilou everyone! - Pulp Fiction)

James

Only because you are attacking the strings from the high E rather than the low E string, so the equivalent of playing always with an up-stroke. Hendrix sounded different because the Strat has an in-line headstock, so the treble E string has the longest length between the nut and the tuning peg, which he of course reversed so the string length to the bottom E sting was the longest instead. This changed the sound of the instrument itself and caused Stevie Ray Vaughn to try to re-create the Hendrix sound by using a left-hander neck on a regular right-handed strat.
I hope that isn't too techie.

No, very interesting techie stuff, clearly explained so that a non-techie like me can understand! Thanks
James

Eric Clapton always tells the tale that he had seen and purchased a left handed Strat in NY. He was due to give it to Jimi unfortunately Jimi died the day before they were due to meet.

Didn't Hendrix reverse string his guitar so was still playing them in the same order ie lower E at the top?

Regarding the in line head thing. Surely the bit you "hear" is between the nut and the bridge saddles.So the length of string behind the nut shouldn't make any difference. Mind you putting a power supply on a preamp shouldn't make much difference either.

Yes Howard, restringing it so he looks down on the bottom E string just means the guitar itself is upside down. The remaining length of string above the nut will resonate with the string even though it isn't played. It's all part of the harmonics.
The string trees will influence the sound too to a small degree (The little guides on the headstock face - one on early guitars and two on later ones)
I'm getting boring, aren't I



Stupidly I forgot the more obvious physical difference to the guitar, which is that the rear pickup is angled, so the reversal of the strings will put more treble on the bass string and less top on the treble string when the guitar is flipped over. Of course that only applies when the treble pickup is being used.

Being a "Lefty" myself, my guitars are all left-handed and are mirror images of a R/H guitar.

Many years ago my father-in-law taught me to play a bit of Violin. He was absolutely adamant that there was no such thing as a left-handed violin so, being by then accustomed to fingering with my right hand, I really struggled & gave up in the end.

Rasher, James, Howard - this is fascinating - thank you for your explanations.

Gibson guitars have symetrical headstocks and straight aligned pickups, so sound the same strung either way. How many players have you seen play a Gibson upside down?
Ironic, ain't it!

Dear Fred,

I'm sure what you say is true (and it generally is a mistake to generalise in that manner - since I too have heard Steinways with which I've had no problem). However, I have heard a fair few over they years which have been characterised in exactly the way I mentioned.

regards, Tam

quote ...
"It's an interesting point about pianos and not something I have thought about before. I wonder if there would be any advantage to a left-handed player if the keyboard was reversed (bass to treble running right to left)?"
... end-quote

Hello Rasher,

I read somewhere that [on a normal piano] it is easier to write a concerto for the left hand because it means the upper-note melody is being played with the stronger fingers and the accompliment with the weaker fingers. A concerto for the right hand would be much harder to do convincingly.

I don't know how true this theory is but it sounds convincing ...

James H.

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
It's an interesting point about pianos and not something I have thought about before. I wonder if there would be any advantage to a left-handed player if the keyboard was reversed (bass to treble running right to left)?

In this hypothetical case not just the piano, but the music itself would have to be reversed, not to mention relearned.

Since most people are right-handed, most piano literature (aside from pieces written specifically for a one-handed pianist) is composed to favor the presumed dexterity advantage the right hand has, as well as the presumed strength advantage the left hand has. Although there are many examples in the repertoire of compositions requiring ambidexterity, most pianist are not truly ambidextrous. In general (with exceptions, of course), the right hand favors speed and dexterity, the left hand favors strength and reach. This is a gross oversimplification, but is based in real-world practice.

As an interesting sidebar, jazz musician Josef Zawinul uses an ARP 2600 synthesizer which has a feature allowing him to invert the keyboard so that the left-most note is the highest pitch, and vice versa. The principle theme of the title track of Black Market was composed on it, and actually the tune does somehow sound "upside down." You can hear it and see it here.

Zawinul did this to challenge himself and to foster new ideas he might not have come across on a conventional keyboard. As Zawinul said, to use the inverted keyboard "you have to have a good brain." An understatement, to be sure.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:

I'm sure what you say is true (and it generally is a mistake to generalise in that manner - since I too have heard Steinways with which I've had no problem). However, I have heard a fair few over they years which have been characterised in exactly the way I mentioned.

I'm sure you have, Tam. Like I said, there are a lot of bad people in the world named Larry.

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:
Since most people are right-handed, most piano literature is composed to favor the presumed dexterity advantage the right hand has, as well as the presumed strength advantage the left hand has.

So are you saying that a left handed player and a right handed player will sound different playing the same piece (aside from musicianship) because the strengths of each hand are the opposite of that intended by the composer? If so, that then makes a case for a left-handed piano. (accepted that you would have to learn piano that way round from the off)

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:
Since most people are right-handed, most piano literature is composed to favor the presumed dexterity advantage the right hand has, as well as the presumed strength advantage the left hand has.

So are you saying that a left handed player and a right handed player will sound different playing the same piece (aside from musicianship) because the strengths of each hand are the opposite of that intended by the composer? If so, that then makes a case for a left-handed piano. (accepted that you would have to learn piano that way round from the off)

Well, it's not that cut and dried. As a right-handed pianist, I don't really know what the experience is like for a left-handed pianist, but I would assume that because the vast majority of piano literature is written to favor right-handed pianists, left-handed pianists just adapt to the convention. By the time a left-handed pianist is out in the world performing, I don't think there would be any noticeable difference because the demands of the music take precedence over the strength or weakness of one hand over the other. By which I mean that if there is a long fiendishly difficult run of 32nd notes for the right hand in a given piece, a left-handed pianist would just have to buckle down and master it with his or her right hand.

The prospect of a piano with an inverted keyboard (a la Zawinul's ARP 2600) just isn't feasible, for many reasons: the whole piano itself would have to be redesigned to account for its complicated mechanical operation being reversed ... on the ARP 2600, it's just a matter of reversing polarity by flipping a switch.

Also, the printed music would have to be re-notated and reprinted, and then re-fingered (fingering is the process of assigning which finger plays which note, often a major undertaking) and relearned.

In fact, the entire Western notational system would have to be inverted, as increased height on a staff translates to higher pitch. So instead of learning the names of the notes on the lines of the treble staff (from bottom up) as Every Good Boy Deserves Favor, those lines would now be the descending pitches Ab, F, Db, Bb, G, and I'm not even gonna try to come up with a mnemonic device for that! Plus, the treble staff would now be the lower of the two in the grand staff, with the bass staff now on top. This is probably much more information than you want, but you can easily see what a can of worms this would open.

Finally, one of the advantages of the piano over other instruments is their relative universality ... they're everywhere: in homes, schools, churches, hotels, bars, concert halls. It just wouldn't do for a right-handed pianist to show up to a gig and discover a left-handed piano! Believe me, it's plenty bad enough to suffer the condition of conventional pianos already in existence!

All best,
Fred

quote:

Originally posted by Rasher:
Only because you are attacking the strings from the high E rather than the low E string, so the equivalent of playing always with an up-stroke. Hendrix sounded different because the Strat has an in-line headstock, so the treble E string has the longest length between the nut and the tuning peg, which he of course reversed so the string length to the bottom E sting was the longest instead. This changed the sound of the instrument itself and caused Stevie Ray Vaughn to try to re-create the Hendrix sound by using a left-hander neck on a regular right-handed strat.
I hope that isn't too techie.

Illustration (Go 4 minutes in for the classic bit!)

Fred - Don't worry, I'm only exploring a hypothetical theory. So I take it that left handed pianists are at a disadvantage. I'm wondering now how many left handed pianists there are. I have Black Market so I'll give it a listen with all this in mind (I saw him play here a couple of years ago, and he is still awesome).