Need reliable counsel, new range vs. olive
Posted by: Markus on 20 August 2003
Some background. When I first bought Naim equipment, over ten years ago, I lived deep in the hills of east Tennessee. No Naim dealer around, so bought my equipment from a dealer in California. I found his advice reliable and his opinions right on.
When I moved to the Pacific Northwest, Bob Levin's (Hawthorne STereo) opinions also always proved to be trustworthy.
Both these dealers really focus on and KNOW Naim equipment. They can demonstrate multiple system configurations, pay attention to how the various components sound and their opinions and advice are quite good.
Now that I'm in the midwest, my local dealer doesn't really focus on Naim. He carries many other brands and seems to focus on multi media. No complaints, it is all up to him and what works for him. But he doesn't really seem to "know" Naim.
Yesterday I stopped by and had a quick listen to a 202/200. Having heard that the new 250 is better than old 135's I started talking with the dealer. His opinions just seemed to indicate a general lack of real experience with Naim. For example, "Oh yes, a new 200 will *take* a 180.." ? Excuse me, but wouldn't this be rather obvious? To me this is not an insightful comment because the new 200 was designed to replace the 180 and both fit into the same price-point in the product line. Of course a new 200 is better than a 180! He went on to say that you'd have to go up to 135's to beat a 200. This seems a little extreme, like the comment of somebody who really doesn't know from experience how the various pieces in the old line compare to the new line.
Please! Can somebody offer some comparisons, especially the following...
Olive 250 vs. classic 200
Olive 135's vs. classic 250
202 vs 82
52 vs 282
Thanks, in advance, for your assistance.
Markus
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Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Julian H
Sorry Markus, I don't want to hijack your thread but I'd be interested in 52 v's 282 comments too, since they come in at roughly the same price and I'm thinking about those two options too...,
Regards, Julian
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Mario
Olive 250 vs. classic 200
Olive 135's vs. classic 250
202 vs 82
52 vs 282
These are excellent questions that I hope somebody will answer. I am hanging to afford the 282 but wish that I could go straight to a 252 and be done with it - keep dreaming Mario. Since I read these pages every day, I'm sure that the main response will be that there is no way that a preamp with an "8" in its model number will ever beat one with a "5" in it, even if it's a "super 8". The other product that I lust over is the new 250. I've read and heard many reports that this amp beats the old 135. Great news, looks like there really is a benefit in waiting for ever to save enough cash to afford these things. All in all, a 282/250 goal looks like it will be a rewarding one, Mario.
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Naimed-In-NY
I've heard from some, including a Naim dealer, that the new 200 is on par with - but different than - the old 250. Same with the new 250 v. 135s. For instance, a dealer I spoke with said he prefers the new 200 over the old 250, but could understand why others may prefer the old 250. However, he did say in his opinion the 82 still was better than the 202, although not by a wide margin. I've never done the comparisons myself and although I decided on the new gear (200/202) for a number of reasons, I'd also be very curious to hear from forum members who made direct comparisons under good conditions (using same sources and speakers, comparing within the same general timeframe, etc.).
MBM
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Paul B
I have compared 135s and 300 (accompanying gear was LP12/252/SL2/NBL). There is a significant difference which I suspect may be indicative of Naim's intended direction with its new/revised electronics. The 300 presents a much larger soundstage, is considerably smoother and possibly more detailed. The 135s are much more "in your face" and offer, IMO, more of the traditional Naim features (particularly attack and drive).
Which did I prefer - unexpectedly, the 135s but there is no question the 300 is superior in several areas!! This was only my initial reaction and I intend to listen again (certainly before any purchase is to be made).
Paul
Posted on: 20 August 2003 by Bob Edwards
Posted on: 21 August 2003 by jimlevitt
Graham: you're doing a disservice to Hawthorne by not checking in with them before posting a message like this. If you'd called them, you would know that there's a ton of new gear in the store now, including most of the Reference range. No need to go to San Francisco to hear it. Just drive across the bridge...
Jim
Posted on: 21 August 2003 by Emil F
Me, the 300 is simply fantastic!
That's right, Stu!
Emil
Posted on: 21 August 2003 by Markus
Thanks, all, for your posts. It would be great if others could keep building on this thread by sharing the results of their auditions.
I consider myself primarily a Naim bottom-feeder. I recognize that my 72 is currently the bottleneck in my system and that my 3.5 was never intended to be Naim's ultimate cd-spinner. I owned a wonderful CDS for about a year and two 250's of differing vintages. Having been satisfied to "set it and forget it" for a long while I'm only recently really starting to think about upgrades and where I want to go. Given my financial obligations these changes are done in stages and my near-term target is an olive 250 to replace my tired Dynaco. Looking out a few years I think a CDX/282/250 mk II look reasonable.
The new range seems to be a bit of a mixed bag, with some folks making claims that might be a bit excessive. Apparently some are claiming that each piece in the new range will out-do the higher piece in the previous range. A trusted advisor yesterday told me these were probably not really accurate opinions. All the pieces *are* better than they were in their prior incarnation but the hierarchy has not been turned on its head with 200's killing 250's and 202's topping 82's.
One thing seems sure, and that is that those who can afford the new range are extremely satisfied, while those of us who seek out their cast-offs are only too glad for the opportunities we're seeing.
Markus
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Posted on: 21 August 2003 by Paul B
Graham:
Jim is quite right. I was at Hawthorne about 10 days ago and they do have most (if not all) of the new reference electronics on demo. Looked to me like one of the big boxes might have been a 552 too as I noticed the large Burndy interconnect was very different.
Paul
Posted on: 21 August 2003 by Stephen H
Pardon?
Slim,
Could you expand on your last post please? I know it's Friday morning and I've had a long week, but I can't make head nor tail of it.
I'm particularly interested in olive 250 vs 200 as that is the dilemma I'm facing on the next upgrade.
Thanks and regards,
Steve.
Posted on: 22 August 2003 by Sean Woods
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen H:
Pardon?
Slim,
Could you expand on your last post please? I know it's Friday morning and I've had a long week, but I can't make head nor tail of it.
I'm particularly interested in olive 250 vs 200 as that is the dilemma I'm facing on the next upgrade.
Thanks and regards,
Steve.
Buy the Olive 250, I tried the NAP200 and I did not think it was a big enough upgrade from my old NAP180.
The Olive 250 is in a class of its own!
Sean
