Music, The reason we own a quality HiFi.

Posted by: Whizzkid on 22 February 2009

Hi Guys,


I was flicking through some of the "discussions" in the Audio and DA rooms and then came to what I think is the most civilised of all the rooms on this forum. But I'm always a little perplexed by the realative inactivity of this room and as my title suggests is this not what we own a Naim system for? Its really the size of the Naim Dac thread that got me thinking that there is a big discussion on a product thats in a prototype stage and only a few people have heard it but the thread has a 180+ posts already the mind boggles to what can they really be talking about. Now I love the topic of HiFi and get out to many Bake Offs & HiFi Shows around the country to hear and see as much different kit as I can which is fun but ultimately its the music played on these systems that enthuses me the most really and how its presented so a familar piece on an unfamiliar system can give you a different insight into its creation.


I've been around various fora for about 5 years now and have met some nice people as a result of posting on different fora but have found myself gravitating to the music rooms much more lately. I have an Electronic Music thread on HiFiWigWam that is great way of exchanging views on my first love in music and its got a healthy post count and views and I hope it continues to grow but the best thing it hasn't degraded into a slag fest about the relative merits of Aphex Twin up against Squarepushers output. So why do the audio threads deteriate on a regular bases? the music room never seems to get into those situations, people enjoy a bit of ribbing but ultimately we are here for the love of music and that is why I searched out a quality HiFi a few years ago when my old one went bang and in doing this my musical tastes have developed to now include Free Form Jazz and Improvisational music, Classic, Prog Rock, Modern Jazz & a little bit of (OMG) Folk music, who knows what else will be next. To me that is the beauty of owning a quality set the insight and understanding of other types of music it brings to me anyway I'll stop rambling and would like to hear your thoughts on the lack of musical buzz in the music room compared to Audio rooms or should we keep it this way and not let the riff raff know about the great place the music room is it could spoil it for all of us Smile.



Dean...Music first always.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789524
quote:
Originally posted by Whizzkid:
Hi Guys,
a little bit of (OMG) Folk music, who knows what else will be next.
Dean...Music first always.


Careful here, some of us are old enough to remember the great folk scare of the 60's, it was not pretty.

Not sure if it was you, Dean, or Jamie that prompted me to try Underworld and Orbital. I will try some more Orbital but didn't get on with Underworld - but, as your post explains, I was compelled to try them because of the civility of this room and its presenters.

with respect for the diversity of this special place within the forum,

Jeff A
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by 555
Well said Dean. Seems to me music unites folks, but equipment divides.
quote:
... the great folk scare of the 60's ...

Do tell us more please Jeff. Eek
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Howlinhounddog
Dean,
Not quite sure if there is a lack of buzz in the music room, I for one would not be without it as over the years I have been thankful for the different genres it has afforded and guided me to.
I take your point about gentle rather than harsh critisism of others tastes and you perhaps have hit the nail on the head by stating 'music first and perhaps that is the point here. A bit of gentle ribbing about musical tastes from other forum members does go on but ultimately we are mostly in agreement with you... Music first always.
regards
Charlie.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Huwge
Only regret is that it ends up more expensive here than in the HiFi Forum, not a bad thing but I am running out of space again.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by 555
I feel your pain Huwge! Big Grin
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Mat Cork
That's the beauty of opinions on the arts...as long as you're not too precious about it, it's good natured fun.

I really find classical music extremely lacking in rhythm and actually saying something about the world (with a few exceptions). I always kid my wife (who is a classical lover) that Beethoven and the 5th, fate knocking on the door 5 times...hmmm, must've been up all night thinking that up. But she will never undertand the Sex Pistols. Clearly tho, we're married and respect each other and it's just fun.

This forum is great from that respect...diversity of opinions is a great thing imo.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by mikeeschman
i wish more forum members would write posts about composers and specific recordings of their works.

george (gffj) has done quite a bit of this, but i think it's something you can never have too much of, and tastes vary from person to person.

more than once, i have been casting about for something new, or a new take on something familiar, and had a post here scratch that itch.

it's like life - the meals aren't quite what you expected, and the portions are always too small ...
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:
Originally posted by Mat Cork:
I really find classical music extremely lacking in rhythm and actually saying something about the world


if you learn to hear meter changes and multiple meter sequences in classical music, you become aware of a world of rhythm that exists no place else but in classical music.

otherwise, you're looking at the pictures and missing the words.

how much do you get from a book you didn't read?
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Originally posted by Mat Cork:
... I always kid my wife (who is a classical lover) that Beethoven and the 5th, fate knocking on the door 5 times...hmmm.


Dear Mat,

Listen again! Find a decent recording, or buy the score!!

I think you will find that there are four knocks!

Dah-dah-dah-daaaaah,

... though the so called knocks of fate [four in each case] do occur many more than five time in the course of the music.

For an emotionally involving recording, may I suggest Otto Klemperer's rhythmically and emotionally gripping account from 1955 [for one truly great example among many], which is so clear and well balanced that you could certainly transcribe the music accurately from the recording, and never be in any doubts about such a major item as the fate motif containing a rhythmic group of four.

I suspect that you must have a terrible recording for that kind of basic error to have been audible. No wonder you find no rhythm in the music.

Of course rhythm is half the technical story, but it it has to be right for there to be much sense of emtional involvement!

ATB fromn George
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:
Originally posted by GFFJ:
I think you will find that there are four knocks!

Dah-dah-dah-daaaaah,



:-)No, it's da-da-ga-da-dum!
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439
PD
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439


Dare Mike,

It is repeated in many forms but never with a rhythmic group of "five!" ;-)

ATB from George
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:
Originally posted by GFFJ:
Dear Mike,

It is repeated in many forms but never with a rhythmic group of "five!" ;-)

ATB from George


just having a little fun george, couldn't resist.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439
;-) Hehe!
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789524
quote:
Originally posted by 555:
Well said Dean. Seems to me music unites folks, but equipment divides.
quote:
... the great folk scare of the 60's ...

Do tell us more please Jeff. Eek


You didn't hear about the AMPLIFIERS and ELECTRIC GUITARS !!!!!!!!!!
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Jono 13
I find myself buying more recorded music than ever as prices online continue to come down. I have just ordered a D.A.F. album from 1982 that I never owned other than on tape.

I do not like to strip-mine artists material from peer-to-peer networks as I get paid for the work I produce and I think that so should they. I do feel that once they are dead, or all members of a band, then their work should go copyright free as they are no longer around to benefit from the royalities. I dislike funding dead rock stars off-spring's lifestyles!

But moving back on topic I also have changed music mags over the years and now find that The Word, with the "free" CD, matches my tastes well enough. It has introduced me to all manner of new music.

Jono
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Voltaire
Dean, it sounds as if you and I have travelled a similiar path. I now spend most of my forum time in the music room and every minute/post is well spent. I have been introduced to some wonderful music that I probably would never have bought and 'met' some genuinely decent music lovers.

I'm also a bit confused at the popular threads on hifi forums speculating about the sound, price, dimensions, etc about products which haven't even been released yet? I don't mind a bit of interest generating PR but some of them are just plain crystal ball gazing.

I posted here yesterday that I could listen to great music on a cheap/poor hifi but I wouldn't listen to poor music on a great hifi. As some regular posters are aware, I lost my job last year and my life savings were in an Icelandic bank... Frown Consequently I had to sell my Naim equipment to pay bills so I'm using an old NAD amplifier very kindly lent to me by some friends. I have had hours of pleasure listening to some great vinyl, cd and MP3 through it. My finances are now sorted out and I do intend to replace my hifi but for the moment I'm enjoying the music.

Lastly it amazes me that people can be in the music room and agree that x group or y genre is just not their cup of tea but, in the hifi room, they become extremely annoyed if you dare to suggest you don't like x model or y manufacturer.

Gordon
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439
Dear Dean,

I think you are right that the interest [and passion] really reside in here - in The Music Room.

But the real problem is that music is thunderingly difficult to write about! There are great writers on music, but for many of us - certainly me anyway - it is easier to describe an enthusiastic response to music than to really pin the music itself down!!!

The other problem for the classics at least is that things move skowly. The greatest performing musicians emerge slowly over half a lifetime, and the greatest music really is recognised as such only very slowly over generations. So that often I find that it is quite useful to post a thread link that covers the topic, when some light and various opinions have been already shared. There are some great threads in the archive in this section.

What I also think is fantastic here, is when someone finds something new, then they will enthuse about it, and try to share the experience!

Really music is all about enthusiasm, and it is often this enthusiasm that gets people trying to achieve the best quality of replay from recordings, so that they can listen in the home, and listen to music that otherwise they never could.

This applies as much to the say Beatles as to Beethoven performed by artists of the Beatles' time ...

But it does seem that often people can disagree with grace in this section - well more than elsewhere in the forum ...

ATB from George
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789524
quote:
Originally posted by GFFJ:
But the real problem is that music is thunderingly difficult to write about! There are great writers on music, but for many of us - certainly me anyway - it is easier to describe an enthusiastic response to music than to really pin the music itself down!!!
ATB from George


Gosh, George,
you apparently are able to make the difficult seem easy to this reader as I am always amazed by the skill with which you convey your love, passion, and intimate knowledge of classical music to someone like me who essentially has no idea why I like something beyond the simplistic "I like it, it sounds good to me".

I have had many conversations with a friend who , like you, also plays music, as well as being a music lover/appreciator. He and I "hear" music very differently. He tends to "understand" it (for better or worse), whereas, again, I only know if I somehow (without technical understanding) connect with what is being presented.

People may wonder why I seemingly listen with frequent artist repetitions - first of all, I truly love these artists and feel some connection and do play them that often. But also, on here at least, it is my simplistic way of trying to convey to others that what I am listening to might be worth trying at least once, if only for the experience.

If, by chance, I and another end up sharing a true passion for the same artist, it is a bond I feel is very special. Across thousands of miles with people I seemingly hardly know, I have found peace and contentment. I have enjoyed few things in life as much.

regards
Jeff A
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Anderson:

People may wonder why I seemingly listen with frequent artist repetitions - first of all, I truly love these artists and feel some connection and do play them that often. ...

If, by chance, I and another end up sharing a true passion for the same artist, it is a bond I feel is very special. Across thousands of miles with people I seemingly hardly know, I have found peace and contentment. I have enjoyed few things in life as much.

regards, Jeff A


Dear Jeff,

Music means sometimes quite varied things to different people, and sometimes one finds a performing artist who seems to find the same things in music that you or me might be looking for. That is another connection with music that involves the heart.

As you say, to find someone else whose connection with the music is via a favourite performing artist of yours is a tremendous spiritual connection. I have made long distance friendships as a direct result of this myself. A result of sharing this enthusiasm!

ATB from George
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by King Size
quote:
Originally posted by Whizzkid:
But I'm always a little perplexed by the realative inactivity of this room and as my title suggests is this not what we own a Naim system for?

Like you I generally prefer the music section of hi-fi fora and am an active participant in this room on the other hi-fi forum I am a mamber of.

However to be honest I find the Naim Music Room to be a little boring. The reason for this is that the most popular threads are

What are you listening to right now?
What was the last CD you bought?
What was the last vinyl you bought?

Posts in these threads generally feature little more than a picture of an album cover with very little discussion about the music itself. Personally I don't find these kinds of threads that stimulating or interesting.

I'm sure that the popularity of these threads indicates that i'm in he minority but its jsut my humble POV, that's all.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Mat Cork
Mike, my wife says similar things...and I always say, can you tap your feet to it?

Sometimes lost in emessages, but all said in a good nature, in all genres I can see genius. People who can communicate and emotion through music...it's wonderful.
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by mikeeschman
quote:
Originally posted by Mat Cork:
Mike, my wife says similar things...and I always say, can you tap your feet to it?


sure you can, you just have to be prepared to tap out two different rhythms at the same time on occasion :-) (or wave your arms ...)
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by Mat Cork
You've not seen me dance Mike Winker
Posted on: 22 February 2009 by DeltaSigma
Would like to be able to participate in the discussions in this room a bit more (enjoyment of music is after all the ultimate purpose of this hobby). However, there is not much discussion of the genres that interest me, unfortunately. It would otherwise be a great resource for learning about new musicians and records that might be of interest.