DNM Speaker cable

So true. It is hard to better GOOD quality pure silver cables when the rest of the system and supply is right.

...so presumably when you have an even more revealing mains supply, the glare is even worse?

David

Mains isn't 'revealing' as such - it's just that bad mains can be 'muddying', and a really revealing system (such as that which the better Nordost cables might be connected to) will highlight any deficiency in the chain - whether a dodgy source, iffy mains or whatever...

Think of the better Nordost cables like very fine camera lenses - say, Zeiss, Leitz or whatever. Then think about how such ruthlessly revealing optics can show up the smallest defects, pores, whatever, on the surface of the skin whereas perhaps lesser optics such as consumer-grade Canon or Minolta lenses (say) might not be as revealling, 'glazing over' the detail.

In other words, as with the best optics, what the best cables offer is the truth. If you're not ready for the truth then by all means hide behind lesser cables - in a lesser system, or a sub-optimal system, this could result in a better sound - in the way that the cheaper lenses might allow a more 'flattering' portrait - but if you're after the truth, Nordost is your cable...

The counterpoint to this is that in a 'closed' system, such as a Naim system is, the cable is designed to work with the amps and the 'system' as a whole is voiced to suit. Therefore, the ruthlessly revealing Nordost (or similar) cables might not have the required 'influence' on the sound that the A5 does - but that's by design and decision made by Naim rather than any flaw in the Nordost. Once you realise this, cable selection becomes easy...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

......whatever.

I'm pretty dubious about the Nordost range. I wouldn't claim to have tried the lot, but have tried various of their speaker cables, interconnects and mains cables in my system. Never liked any of it. Yes you get more detail, but this doesn't always mean more music.

David (who's recently changed to Townshend Isolda)

We're all different! Your system is not mine and what works in one won't necessarily work in the other. Be skeptical, that's my advice - it's cheaper, and if you're happy then leave such things well alone - you'll only end up financially worse off

For me, I made the daft move of borrowing some Nordost SPM to try and sadly never looked back. I wish I'd left it well alone - it's the cocaine of the hifi world, but at least my nose hasn't fallen off...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Stallion,

If I had taken your advice in the last few months, I would have bought a Musicworks block, then Musicworks cables, then sold the cables, then sold the block, then bought an Audioworks block, then sold the Audioworks block, then gone back to Naim cables.

Are you suggesting I should go for the Nordost?

David

Hi-Fi is not 'Truth' its artifice. I'm happy with the musical message I receive. As in most good portrait photography the subject of main interest is in sharp focus. If I can't hear little plinky plonks on Elvis tracks I'm not that bothered (and anyway, I can). Silver's not for me, that's all.

Alex

PS TC - I think Naim will be thrilled to know that modded NACA5 is half decent

David, stick to the Isolda, its particularly good with Bruckner.

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David, there are too many anomalies to consider that would enable one to ascertain what this 'correct' actually is.

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There's no such thing as 'correct'. We all hear differently and all have different priorities. It's your tendency to use absolutes that I struggle with.

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However, you can be pretty sure that mains quality plays a significant role in ones ability to realise it

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Agreed.

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Isolda is also a great cable and is perhaps the only cable that (arguably) betters NACA5 in a Naim system.

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To clarify, my power amp is a Dynavector HX1.2. Personally, I've never tried Townshend in an all Naim system, but I doubt I would change from A5, if that was what I was using.

David

Alex, where does this 'silver' stuff come from - the Nordost cables are mainly OFC - they are very lightly silver coated, but not pure silver, so there is a balance there. However, for all practical purposes Nordost cables are multiple solid core cables (i.e. 40 (say) solid core conductors carefully spaced) and the silver is a red herring (although it may contribute to the sound otherwise they wouldn't do it).

However, glassy and edgy is something they're not - the systems you perhaps heard them in may have been edgy or glassy, but the cables (particularly SPM and up) just let you hear what the gear is doing - and if that's glassy then that's what you'll hear - but in my system there's no 'glassiness' (which is something I dislike as much as the next person) so I guess you must have heard it on a less than optimally setup system. Simple as that...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Alex wrote:

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I'm happy with the musical message I receive.

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Fantastic. Believe me, if you are happy then in all seriousness don't consider changing - it is a financially silly thing to do. However, if you are in the market for a better cable then don't eliminate Nordost on the basis of a couple of dodgy demos - they will let you hear exactly what your system does better than any other cable I've come across, and that can be a double edged sword.

If you're happy and you know it clap your hands...

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Marco,

I have absolutely no desire to give James another opportunity to go on about his ATCs. Please do not encourage him.

David

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Originally posted by Alex S.:
Not in my experience with my present equipment - just try a cleaned record and there's beautiful and plentiful note decay using DNM bullet plugged ICs and Isolda speaker cable. May I respectfully suggest that note decay is not the greatest strength of Naim CD players.

Alex

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I see goalposts looming! At both ends. Seriously, I can't argue with that I've only got experience of my old micromega and of course the vinyl reference. I'd say that I noticed the difference when listening to vinyl too. Let's agree that Naim CD players do not present note decay as fully as others, but as to which approach is more correct, I suppose it depends on which side of middle earth you sit.

Peter

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Anyone who has heard music live (i.e. everyone) knows what real instruments actually sound like, so it's not too difficult to tell between systems that get it right and those that get it wrong.

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Fine - but, for example in a cable change, you are not just judging one element such as tone colour in isolation. I've not yet heard a cable that does everything better than every other cable - hence why the listener has to make a choice as to what is important to them. Then you add price into the equation. It is not black and white.

David

Pianos Marco?,

I hope your case isn't going to rest on a certain pianist visiting a certain house to hear a certain system with a pair ATCs...

David

James,

That old 'mastertape' baloney again. Presumably then, you need to upgrade your LP12 and preamp immediately so as to catch the third recording engineer's mate emitting a 'silent one'.

Alex

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David, you seem obsessed wiv me ATCs. Can't say I blame you.

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You're right James, I must be obsessed I've mentioned them twice - I've exceeded my quota. Now what about your 26 references?

David

Could I be forgiven for suggesting this thread has slipped a little 'off-topic' - that is if it hasn't been hijacked

David

That's it! Think Orange - with little bits of blue and silver.

Alex

PS My point is that systems should never be judged by how revealing or 'acurate' they are at the expense of other qualities. Surely, Naim as a brand is testament to that - Krell, Chord and any number of others are far more 'revealing'. One could argue that those brands get you much closer to the mastertape, yet they don't, they get you wallowing in a hyper-real, non-musical quagmire.

Despite the above I am fully aware that you are not wallowing about in a non-musical quagmire - although you must surely team up with TC and invest in Valhalla.

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you must surely team up with TC and invest in Valhalla

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Unless, Alex, you're willing to buy it for us...



TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

James, who told you that? It's, of course, entirely true - I'm coming through on saturday for a (cough) hifi show, if you fancy meeting up there - I'll probably get the bus unless my better half can be persuaded to come too - but Buchanan Bus Station isn't far from the show. Beers sound like a splendid idea...!!

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Following TC's magnum review of the Opus, and given the fact that its 'a player which really digs out an incredible amount of hitherto unheard music off the cds I [TC] played', you clearly need to get one

Alex

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Following TC's magnum review of the Opus

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You mean you actually read it? Damn, must try harder...



TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

All hi-fi systems produce sound, they don't ever faithfully re-produce original sound. Therefore, in every case we simply assemble the components which produce the sound we find most musical, in our own environments. Nobody's idea of a musical sounding system is any more or less correct than anyone else's. So why argue?

Way back when, when I was reviewing for a magazine, I undertook a set a cable evaluations. Every manufacturer I spoke with had the same opinion on evaluations: If you want to experience their version of how a system should sound, then you should cable the entire system with their product. All of them were adamant that simply ploping a single cable or interconnect into one's system did not in any way represent what they were about. Fair enough.
I used the Nordost Red Dawns front to back in several systems (never a naim), including both series of Pass, Levinson, and some tube integrateds. Speakers came and went through the lengthy reviews.
The Red Dawns ended up being one of my favorite ways to wire a system, along with the higher end Discovery products.
Having qualified the basis for my opinion, I would put forth that the Red Dawn tends to be a bit tonally light, sometimes "whitening" the harmonic structures of instruments, particularly violins and cellos. Still, they were tremendously emotive in a majority of systems.
As to the philosophical question of pianos sounding like pianos live, etc. It reminds me of a conversation I had with my friend Art Dudley years ago, concerning the very question of "Fidelity". The question of sound just like Carnegie Hall is absurd - I would ask, what row, was the man in front of you bald (reflections), or a nearby woman wearing a mink (absorbtions), what was the relative humidity (acoustical instruments change their timbre) and so on and so forth to the point of absurdity.
A musicl recording is a photograph of an event, with infinite variables present at it's capture. A hi fi will never convey all the variables. It is,in my opinion, a noble achievement if it lets most through unscathed.
If a system conveys the passion, pathos, and emotion of a performance, it has done it's job. But then again, I could be wrong ---

Bob,

Nice analysis, and very flat earth it seems.

Peter