Dealership greed ?

I'm not sure I follow why in a time of supposed recession people expect to be able to walk into a specialist HI-FI dealers and presume that the dealer is acting in pure self (or greed ) by maintaining the 'normal' selling price of the product.

Surely if the person making the purchase has the sufficient funds and can afford to purchase said product (be it in £ coins , credit or any which way) then what difference does it make to them what state the economic climate is in ?

I asked my Naim dealer many years ago "why don't you advertise?"

He replied that he knew his customers and they knew him. That was over twenty years ago, my dealer is still in business. He regards his business as providing musical enjoyment and fulfilment to his customers. I regard this as being worth the price asked and for over 20 years I have never been disappointed.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by ferenc:
r-tee:

huge discounts, below the used market value for new and not used or demo high-end audio products will go against the credibility of the manufacturer and possibly the involved reseller too. It means they want to get rid of them for any price and it is not a good sign, IMHO, it means there is something wrong with them somehow. I would like to buy popular and valuable products which keep their value for a long time.

thats exactly my point. if people start to discount heavily is makes a mockery of the product and the company. if you cant afford it theres no point in wishing it was cheaper so you could. does anyone think rolex would discount their seamaster so it was more afordable, no.

quote:

Originally posted by r-tee:

quote:

Originally posted by ferenc:
r-tee:

huge discounts, below the used market value for new and not used or demo high-end audio products will go against the credibility of the manufacturer and possibly the involved reseller too. It means they want to get rid of them for any price and it is not a good sign, IMHO, it means there is something wrong with them somehow. I would like to buy popular and valuable products which keep their value for a long time.

thats exactly my point. if people start to discount heavily is makes a mockery of the product and the company. if you cant afford it theres no point in wishing it was cheaper so you could. does anyone think rolex would discount their seamaster so it was more afordable, no.

In all honesty I think that the price of luxury goods escalated insanely along with the price of everything else over the past decade, and those don't correct in some way with the rest of the economy will find themselves in danger. As salaries, home prices, and bonuses fall, fewer folks will see the value of a $5K transformer in a box.

quote:

Originally posted by bec143:

In all honesty I think that the price of luxury goods escalated insanely along with the price of everything else over the past decade, and those don't correct in some way with the rest of the economy will find themselves in danger. As salaries, home prices, and bonuses fall, fewer folks will see the value of a $5K transformer in a box.

Or an $800.00 dollar power cord!

luxury products have never been for the mass market. the economies have never been supported by such items therefore they wont be effect too much by it either. this down turn wont last for ever its just a matter of riding the storm. theres no point in manufacturers of hi-end products (cars watches hifi TV etc) turning there hi-end reputations into mediocre ones.. quality and luxury is not essential but is nice to have - if you can afford it.

saying this though retail of evey day electonics is quite poor at the moment. a friend of my farthers is/was the owner of empire electro centre and empire direct, they went bust a few weeks ago. their profit margins were quite small as they relied on mass sales, which dropped steeply.

quote:

what is the dealer mark up anyway. If it's like other retail it will certainly be 100%. Should those people who know what they want, go and buy from a dealer and set it up themselves, pay to subsidise the rolls royce service others seem to need?

Don't confuse margin with profit. What about overheads? The shop, stock, staff, holiday pay, insurance, rates, taxes, etc...,

I think you will find most dealers are in it because its their passion, not to make a fortune.

My dealer works damn hard for his money, I assure you!

Julian

With respect to other postings here, there are several aspects which must be thought through and in many respects, I wonder what the benefit of this discussion is(?):

1- I've no idea what margins are but the demand/supply curve for any goods often isn't straightforward to work-out (and testing it in practice is very challenging for a business!).

e.g. say the retail is £100 and the dealer margin is 50% or £50, then a price reduction of 25% or £25, means that to earn the same absolute margin (or 'contribution' to overheads etc), then sales volumes must double). They don't!

OK, we can argue if the level of overheads/income levels needs to be maintained and whether retailers/other parties in the supply chain have been making 'super-profit' as demand has been very good, but I cannot see this can been the case - the nationwide marketplace via interweb has largely seen to that.

2- In capitalism, purchasers vote with their £ or $ and Naim is but one of many suppliers of what could be argued to be homogenous hi-fi kit.

Delvering product at a spec level and price level the market will absorb/entertain and raise demand for is a key business skill.

So, bottom line mantra....'you pays your money (or not as the case may be) and you takes your choice'.

Sadly, the business world can be a vicious place and often what seems like the right thing to do is not always correct in the long run.

what a wonderful hi fi world will live in ps what rolex do you have

The economy is in a right old state - just look at some of the figures coming out of the big companies like Toyota, Sony, Panasonic, etc.

I don't really see the problem being helped a great deal by tweaking margins - people who are just not spending right now will remain in this mode for the foreseeable future. Those who are able to spend are in the minority and probably won't react a great deal to discounting on specialist products.

There's really no easy answer to the complete pickle the banks, etc have managed to create - ably assisted by Joe Public.

Peter

munch how long have you had you lp12 keeled for and what phono amp do you have tel

???

munch ok back on my thread as i started it my thoughs were if dealers dont become little more competive will lose

munch i meant to say will all lose tel

quote:

If it's like other retail it will certainly be 100%

I can assure you that it's not!

Halve it, and then some more, and that's gross!

Special Hi-Fi, like this, is not like the clothing or fashion industries, or cheap shit made in China or India and sold for massive markups.

Pair of Nike running shoes anyone?

Dear Craig,

I doubt if many here would even understand if I started to rattle on about "opportunity cost on capital" even if I am sure you understand it.

Why do people not in trade insist that all traders are getting rich fast in spite of the obvious fact that most people in trade work huge hours and run round in tattered old cars, and so on ...

I have been both employed and been self-employed. It always mistified me that people not in trade would consider it an easy living ...

Of course it has its benefits, such as not having a boss to tell you to do stupid things and regard you as insolent if you dare suggest a more efficient course of action but it certainly is not a financial advantage most of the time IME.

ATB from George

Well I wasn't a very good business man when I was young, landscaping and barely making it. People knew I bought from the local nursery and would get 10% off and they would demand to get that money. I didn't own a house, didn't have health insurance, drove a Toyota truck while they owned half million dollar houses, and more, and BMWs.

I walked from one woman's job and she hired another guy. A year later I was at her place and thought 'oh my those plants are going to get too big and block her ocean view unless they keep pruning them 2x a year costing her much more than another suitable low growth plant.' She asked me my opinion, i said nice job. I had the horticulture degree and knew what I was doing. Why should I discount a product and not make any money on it? That's how businesses die.

Another woman had a house that was in Architectural Digest when it was built. I hand groomed her potted plants and watered plus the mature landscape, but try to get another $20 for a flat of marigolds and she'd say 'oh that's not in my budget", she was across the street from the ocean.

I left the area in a few years. About 3 years later went back visiting the nursery. Sales guy that was a friend said "i don't know what you did to those women" "What do you mean?" "I had 3 women in shopping here on a slow day and one asked for your number and I told her you weren't here. The other women happened to all have you and they all started raving about you and how they couldn't get that service now." He said he'd never, EVER, heard women rave about their gardeners, it's usually the opposite. Yet $20 extra wasn't in their budget.

When I buy from my dealer, he does not come down 100 miles to set it up. I buy s/h thru the internet or new from him. I never, ever, bargain him down. He's just great and turned me on to some great stuff at a reasonable price.

If it's not in your budget then so be it, save a little more. If you want a bargain go to used equipment. This is not a cheap bargain hobby.

hi wolf

I buy from peter and pay retail. He delivers here, which is quite a schlep from leicester.

But I ensure he gets very well fed and wined, and has a room if he needs to stay over. He is now a good mate!

And he always leaves with an armful of rare new vinyl to try. The latest boxset sat here waiting for the next trip (a new plinth for the lp12) is the ultra-rare 1970-75 Genesis remasters boxset on 200gm half-speed vinyl.

As seen on the net (one of many versions)

quote:

Once a large ship's engine failed. The ship's owners tried one expert after another, but none of them could figure how to fix the engine. Then they brought in an old man who had been fixing ships since he was a youngster. He carried a large bag of tools with him, and when he arrived, he immediately went to work. He inspected the engine very carefully, top to bottom.


Two of the ship's owners were there, watching this man, hoping he would know what to do. After looking things over, the old man reached into his bag and pulled out a small hammer. He gently tapped something. Instantly, the engine lurched into life. He carefully put his hammer away. The engine was fixed! A week later, the owners received a bill from the old man for one thousand rupees.

"What?!" the owners exclaimed. "He hardly did anything!"

So they wrote the old man a note saying, "Please send us an itemized bill."

The man sent a bill that read:


Tapping with a hammer ........................ Rs 10.00

Knowing where to tap .......................... Rs 990.00

A dealer knows where to hit and that is why they ask the price they do.

When I first heard Naim 92/90 at Gene's he gave me an hours time. Seeing the shock on my non-poker face on the price and beyond what I budgeted, he said in 3 weeks a guy is turning in the same kit and I can give you 30% off new. But if you want these speakers you have to take them now. I pulled out that check so fast.

I've spent a lot of money with my dealer since to make my beginning system seem pale. But he also told me about 2 used record stores near him. Over a $100 went to each and I told the store owners he sent me, I'd bought the P5 from him, I also had all those records to explore and a small store owner could pay his rent.

I wanted to take Gene to lunch one time and talk, he took me to a small Mexican restaurant and I think the bill was $10, he waved me off when I reached for my wallet. I was heading home with a nice box, I think that was the CDX2.

I remember that woman across from the ocean, at Christmas I got a $20 for a tip. I graciously accepted it. That year I had several small orchids bloom in my back deck, after I'd had them 2 weeks I loaned them to her for the last 2 weeks. What gardener loans orchids?

Gene sent me a cord or it was Naca5 I'd ordered, came in a box with some records he was culling and I might like. Symbiotic relationship is what they call it in biology.

Terryfranks,by how much have you reduced your cab fare?, let me know and I will seek you out when I am in London next week.

So far this year I have only found "greedy" cab drivers all charging the same rate.

What's a cab fair in London?

i dont know, maybe its where they all take turns in driving around in circles

I have to say that I have a problem with the Naim pricing, why does the price of all the items go up every year ? Why is the price the same in all the dealers, no matter the difference in service or their overheads ?

In a very changing market I don't see any difference in behaviour.

Now, Linn has definately adapted. I have a friend who has an older Linn HDD system and instead of letting him get nothing for it second hand, the manufacturer is offering to match the original retail price to assist him spending more on upgrading. Very impressive.

What a great way to stimulate sales in the current climate.

Roy.

gerry mcg i work on friday night and done a faire to watford from london brigde station it was 80 pound i done it 55 pounds so hows that greedy kuma a cab faire in london it depends were you go