Stageline
Posted by: Paul B on 30 April 2002
IIRC someone recently mentioned that their dealer used the Stageline with a dedicated Supercap through a 52. I was surprised by this as I had thought that the Stageline was not intended to be used at this level of performance. Have I greatly underestimated its performance level? (I have not heard one.)
Any comments regarding the performance of the Stageline appreciated - particularly if it offers a performance advantage over the 52 MC Phono inputs.
Furthermore, does the Stageline suffer from the same RF interference problems as the Prefix?
Paul
Any comments regarding the performance of the Stageline appreciated - particularly if it offers a performance advantage over the 52 MC Phono inputs.
Furthermore, does the Stageline suffer from the same RF interference problems as the Prefix?
Paul
Posted on: 01 May 2002 by Laurie Saunders
As I mentioned in an earlier posting, my K prefix easily outperforms the boards inside the 52.You also improve the whole system by removing them, when using a prefix. As for RFI, I managed to cure this by winding the earthing lead (between the prefix and the 52) several times through a ferrite ring. IMHO the "S" version of Naims phono boards (& prefix) sound significantly inferior to the K version so that is not a cure I could recommend - having tried it, I would rather keep the K boards, even with the RFI
Cheers
Laurie Saunders
Cheers
Laurie Saunders
Posted on: 01 May 2002 by Martin Payne
quote:
Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:
...my K prefix easily outperforms the boards inside the 52.
Laurie,
I didn't compare too closely when I put the Stageline onto my (early) 52, but I do think that they were an improvement.
quote:
You also improve the whole system by removing them, when using a prefix.
I'm told that there is a small but noticeable improvement to CD replay from unplugging a Prefix or Stageline which is being powered directly by a 52, just as with the internal boards.
Apparently, they have the same diode in the power input, which injects noise back through the SNAIC & Burndy and into the rest of the circuits. A separate SNAPS/Flat-/Hi-Cap should resolve this.
Reminds me - I must remove my internal boards & see what effect it has. Running both K boards & a Stageline must double up the problem!
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 01 May 2002 by J.N.
It was me.
I suspect that for my dealer, it was a case of convenience.
He had a Supercap and a Stageline. Didn't have a prefix available.
I suspect that for my dealer, it was a case of convenience.
He had a Supercap and a Stageline. Didn't have a prefix available.
Posted on: 01 May 2002 by John
"K boards sound significantly better than S"
This doesn't make sense because it is relative to what cartridge you are using.
John
This doesn't make sense because it is relative to what cartridge you are using.
John
Posted on: 02 May 2002 by Laurie Saunders
to all:
The K boards and S boards are essentially the same except for an RC filter on the S boards. This rolls of the HF (and in doing so keeps out RFI) Thus the K boards have wider bandwidth. The S boards may well flatter some cartridges, or, conversely, K boards may well show up problems. I suspect that the dealer , in recommending the S boards may be acting in a rather cynical way. You will get a very good sound, and he may be certain that you also wont get RFI, so ... a satified customer. But you wont know what you are missing (cos you wont have heard the K version which MAY give you RFI prolems).
I lived with K boards in my 52 for years with several MCs of different outputs (Ortofon MC25FL 0.7mV, Ortofon Rohmann...0.25mV...Lyra Clavis DC...o.25mV.....Lyra Helikon....0.4mV) I have tried the S boards in my 52....cures RFI but gave inferior sound in all cases. Bought my prefix second hand as an S version....had it changed by Naim to K version . They removed one R and one C from each channel. As I said above, getting S boards is throwing the baby out with the batwater in my view.
Cheers
The K boards and S boards are essentially the same except for an RC filter on the S boards. This rolls of the HF (and in doing so keeps out RFI) Thus the K boards have wider bandwidth. The S boards may well flatter some cartridges, or, conversely, K boards may well show up problems. I suspect that the dealer , in recommending the S boards may be acting in a rather cynical way. You will get a very good sound, and he may be certain that you also wont get RFI, so ... a satified customer. But you wont know what you are missing (cos you wont have heard the K version which MAY give you RFI prolems).
I lived with K boards in my 52 for years with several MCs of different outputs (Ortofon MC25FL 0.7mV, Ortofon Rohmann...0.25mV...Lyra Clavis DC...o.25mV.....Lyra Helikon....0.4mV) I have tried the S boards in my 52....cures RFI but gave inferior sound in all cases. Bought my prefix second hand as an S version....had it changed by Naim to K version . They removed one R and one C from each channel. As I said above, getting S boards is throwing the baby out with the batwater in my view.
Cheers
Posted on: 02 May 2002 by John
Interesting points, can someone at Naim please comment. Dave Dever I think would be the best to respond.
John
John
Posted on: 02 May 2002 by Ron Toolsie
I think the history of K(arma) vs S(upex) boards was that many early moving coil cartridges had/have severe HF ringing and resonances that needed to be damped and filtered out in much the same way that many phono stages also filter out LF junk. A severe quasi brickwall filter can effectively reduce virtually all of the UHF non-musical junk and zing endemic to some MC cartridges (anybody ever use the original Dynavector DV 10X?)- as well as some RF breakthrough. The attempt to notch out unwanted frequencies so close to the audioband however is usually a great compromise and can rightly be likened to throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Back in the glory days of 'high end' cassette decks, the MPX filter designed to reduce beat frequencies from the 19KHz FM carrier signal also sucked a lot of life out of the recordings. Two audio generations later the filter in CDs designed to brickwall anything approaching 22.05KHz proved just as harmful by mucking up with slew rates at points much lower down in the audio range. Plus ca change......
Not too long ago I heard my 52 with S boards sound quite a bit less good than an 82 with K boards....admittedly with a Troika. Yes the effects of S boards can be thatnegative.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Not too long ago I heard my 52 with S boards sound quite a bit less good than an 82 with K boards....admittedly with a Troika. Yes the effects of S boards can be thatnegative.
Ron
Dum spiro audio
Dum audio vivo
Posted on: 03 May 2002 by Laurie Saunders
Stephen: Source of info.....wait for it....NAIM!
Seriously...give Mark Raggett (Naim) a ring...he`s very knowledgeable and patient
Seriously...give Mark Raggett (Naim) a ring...he`s very knowledgeable and patient
Posted on: 04 May 2002 by John
I spoke with Steve at Nana on this issue and he stated Laurie is incorrect. He stated both K and S boards are different. Both boards contain similar filter but they rolloff at different frequencies. I just coverted my prefix from an E to an S for my new Dynavector XX2. He said the K boards would suck a little bit of the body from my XX2 and the S boards are a perfect match. I also enquired with Naim in England about the Shelter 901 and Keotsu Black and they said recommended the S boards again.
Hopefully Steve post a technical response.
John
Hopefully Steve post a technical response.
John