Mana Wall Shelf for an LP12 or .....

James, the 2 tier can't go under the wall shelf otherwise this would probably be the best option. Not economically though. I have a cabinet (CD storage approx 3 ft high) that needs to stay there to support my 4 tier. My stands have to be above the ground because of children (2 weeks to 3 years old).

Curious why you think option #2 isn't as good?

Also move the 52 off the 5 tier if you can. I tried mine on my 4 tier when I was juggling a CD player in the setup. It was with the supercap and 135s and the quality of sound dropped considerably!

John

[This message was edited by John on SATURDAY 23 November 2002 at 00:03.]

Thanks for the input James. My Mana stands have been sitting on my CD cabinet with no problems until I bought a LP12. I suspect they will work better on the floor (better grounded) but the results on the cabinet didn't motivate me to changing the setup until the LP12 arrived. I will try to post a photo.

John

Here we go again. The wall mount would go on the left wall next to the 2 tier.

James,

Thanks again. I like your idea of the doors but my wife doesn't. The use of the cabinet is a temporary situation until my children are older. It's not ideal but it still makes my Naim kit sing. My #2 idea is to build a wall shelf that is 2 inchs above the top of the cabinet from the right wall. The 2 tier could sit on this rather than the cabinet. It cosmetically would look like it is right now with the two tier about 3 inches higher.

I now have a XX2/P9/Prefix which hasn't had any problems with the Mana on the cabinet. My heart sank when I setup the ARO/LP12/Armegeddon and just walked across the room. I'm gentle, you should see my son and our border collie move. My P9 had no problems with my son playing superman off the couch.

I think I am going to try the wall shelf to see if it works. It might not be ideal but at least all of my components are still on Mana and my TT and 52 are seperated from PSUs.

Take care,
John

We also have The Alcove Problem -- so I can identify with this. I therefore have a number of jumbled thoughts and impressions inspired by your pic, John. In no particular order:

That alcove looks quite deep, with a relatively shallow cabinet barricading the front of it, so there is presumably a good old void behind the cabinet, which may be compromising things.

You don't say what your floor is made of, but if it's a timber slung floor, mounting your existing Mana units on a deep shelf fitted within and across the full width of the alcove at a similar height to the top panel of the CD cabinet ought not to compromise the Mana. Effectively you'd be providing a bit of floor just for it to stand on, only closer to the ceiling than the main floor. Something like 50mm thickness Southern Yellow Pine or solid ash on hardwood wall plates could work well.

You also don't mention what your walls are made of. If they are masonry, you could just get two Mana wall shelves, and fix them to the back wall of the alcove at the right height to put your existing Mana units on them. Slim shelves below would store whatever's in the cabinet currently. You'd get the height you want, and 1 additional phase for everything. Don't compromise on the fixings, though...

Reading your posts above, were you contemplating having the back of your LP12 against the leftmost wall in the pic, i.e so that it's left side faced into the room? If so, this could mean that you would need to operate the deck from a strange angle. I've lived with this for a number of years, and I would advise avoiding this if you can. It works, but it's a bit of a pain.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Thanks for the input everyone. The space behind the cabinet is the ceiling of my front door entrance way. There is a railing about 6 inches behind the cabinet so the cabinet can't go back any further.

I went to Home depot last night an picked up a piece of wood that I am going to mount across the wall to the left. I will hit three studs with 3 inch srews. I also picked up to right angle brackets that can hold over 100lbs no problem and sheet of MDF. If go the route of a Mana wall shelf I will need the mounting board anyways. Total cost $50.

I'm going to give it a shot because it will resolve all of my setup issues. If my plans were to stick with the P9 then I wouldn't change anything. I will order the Mana wall shelf if something nasty comes from this setup. It doesn't make sense to me that something nasty will showup and I personally suspect I will get better sonic results as my current setup is probably compromised by the cabinet.

John

Paul, thanks for the follow up on the falling shelf issue. TC must have had a setup problem as Mana also recommends mounting their wall shelf the exact same way I am proposing when the walls have studs.

John

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul D:
I put my wallshelf, currently at Phase 7, with Rawlplugs and it will hold anything.

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Paul, could I gently suggest that I think you may mean "Rawlbolts", which are probably the best easily-obtainable masonry fixings for this purpose. They are available in two versions: (1) a conventional hex head bolt with an expanding device on the wall end, and (2) identical length of threaded rod with same expanding device, and a hex nut on the visible end. The latter allow you to drill the holes, insert the Rawlbolt, locate the shelf on the threaded ends, and then finish off by tightening up the nuts. You may still need to open up the holes in the steelwork slightly, but the stud versions do seem to be easier to get to work well in a variety of masonry types.

Of course, anyone contemplating fixing anything into a masonry wall should bear in mind that the eventual strength of the whole assemblage is determined by the ability of the wall material to resist compression without breaking up, irrespective of the fixings used! I believe TC's scary episode was down to an inadequate wall, rather than poor fixings -- could be wrong of course.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

For those interested I built the wall shelf by bolting a board across 3 wall studs. I used an MDF 24 inch by 24 inches as the platform. The backets are just right angle steel brackets.

Sonic results:
Firmer sonic image
More dynamics with softer presentation
Greater sense of the speakers disappearing

There is no way this stand is falling down. I could probably do a tap dance on it. I haven't tried my LP12 on it yet as I am waiting for my prefix but if this doesn't solve the footfall problem I can't imagine the Mana wall shelf will.

Give it a try if you are in a similar situation it only cost me $50Cdn which translates into about $10US

John

quote:

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TC's is the only shelf I have heard of coming down.

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I believe mine might have been the only Mana shelf to come off the wall but I've heard of a couple of other shelves of different makes which led to their owners' TTs meeting similar ends. Heartbreaking!

Anyway, to clear up the mystery, I used 3" or 4" solidscrews (not rawlbolts, alas) into brick, but what actually happened was one of the bricks was a bit crumbly, and gave way one day (with the following assemblage, top to bottom):

Mana Cut-down standard table on top (LP12)
Mana PSU table (inside cut-down) - Phono stages, head amp, PSU
1 x soundframe
2 x reference tops*
2 x flat-tops
Mana wallshelf

Basically, the 3 or 4" screws (forget which - they were pretty big buggers, only just narrow enough to fit through the Mana holes IIRC) were fine in themselves but it's not always the screws on which you depend - the brickwork/stonework/etc. has to be in good nick too. I didn't realise this (when I had the house renovated prior to sale earlier this year, we hacked back the plasterwork to discover just how crumbly some of the brickwork was - and I could see the very brick which had given way).

FWIW, this was a brick-failure rather than a fixing failure, though either was possible - when you start with Mana you have a shelf, but I ended up with quite a bit more than that

On the point of whether Mana-on-the-floor versus Mana-on-the-wall sounds better, I'd argue there's little practical difference that another phase wouldn't make. I'd go as far as to say that the LP12 at Phase 7 or so worked better than the rest of the system did at Phase 8 (6-tier atop lots of stages), though I guess that's Mana:LP12 synergy for you.

In a nutshell, however, I'd say that either approach is valid - and a 2-tier on the wall will be fine, but do as I didn't and use bolts and it's not a bad idea to strip back your plasterwork (if possible) and check the condition of the underlying brickwork, etc.

In some ways I have to thank my wall for crumbling as it took me to a better place (musically) in the long-run, but it was heart-breaking, tearful, emotionally draining and a heck of a waste at the time. Luckily I had a compliant insurance company who paid up without too many questions, other than "which one is the turntable?", etc.

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."