WHY does music on a Dell PC and pants headphones at work sound so good?

I reckon you're right - especially about expectations and rising costs with kit.

This is one reason why I'm trying to stop the upgrades, though a better cartridge and racks will be done one day - not in any hurry though...

Of course, the distraction from work probably also adds to the experience!

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

All day, every day, I listen to my music using the MS Media Player, MP3's through a cute pair of wood speakers and subwoofer. As I sit between the speakers the soundstage is great. It really is great, and it goes very loud!! Soon, my office building will be finished and my Rega Planet/NAC42.5/NAP160/Mission 774's installed (I'm having concrete floors put in on both levels!) I bet it won't increase my general enjoyment but, hey, it's gotta be done! I will need to find similarly noisy bastards to rent the ground floor to. Anyone interested?
I love my work!

Could be one of those "the wider you open the window the more muck blows in" scenarios, i.e. Dell = "narrow window", so the rest of the system is easily able to handle the limited source quality, whereas the a high end hi-fi source = "barn door" so can reveal more than the rest of the chain can deal with???

Maybe a better analogy would be the "Big TV" scenario...

Some time ago I upgraded to a 32" widescreen TV, only to be disappointed with the apparently poor picture quality.

Next I added a Sky subscription, & the picture quality was "magically" restored (if not the programme quality, but that's another story )

Bottom line was the bigger screen had revealed more of the flaws in the source signal, & maybe the same applies to the Dell vs Hi-Fi scenario, i.e. a poorly judged / balanced hi-fi could just end up emphasising the bad bits which the likes of Dell never even notice?

J

PS - not sure if this complements or contradicts my earlier theory, but then I say never let self contradiction stand in the way of a good theory

I often listen to music through the builtin speaker in my Compaq desktop PC. It sounds fine.
(I do like Jason's "wide window" analogy.)

Paul Rowlands

PR

I've had a few thoughts on this over dinner, & extended my earlier theories:

1. Perception of Sound

Background reasoning...

• Having listened to music throughout much of our lives, we all have an understanding of how music is "supposed" to sound (which is why Les Dawson's comedy piano playing was so obviously funny / painful depending on your POV).
  
• When hearing music from a less than perfect source, the brain tends to "fill in the gaps", making musical sense out of what may be a less than musical source. In any case, what we "hear" in our heads is always the result of the brain's interpretation of the sound waves reaching the ear, just as the images we "see" are actually our mind's interpretation of the light patterns reaching our eyes, i.e. perception is always subjective, & influenced by our learned experience.
  
• The music you hear in your head when you think of a song is "perfect" (as you imagine it), & that's the "version" that your brain uses to fill in the gaps.
  

The Theory...
The less information there is from the source, the more filling in your brain does, so the better the tune in your head becomes, but...
The more errors there are in what you hear, the harder it is for the brain to compensate

2. Impact of resolution / source quality on post source electronics & ultimately the mental impression of the music

MP3

• On the plus side, you have a limited resolution source, relatively unchallenging to the post source electronics (low bandwidth, low resolution etc), so there is less stress on downstream components, so less introduction of errors post source, leaving the brain to more easily "fill in the gaps" towards a higher resolution mental picture. Also, given the popular image of MP3 as a "lo-fi" format, it doesn't have to do much to exceed expectations.
  
• On the minus side, if you've never heard the uncompressed source, then there's a world of detail you'll never know - the artist may well have intended all sorts of unconventional effects that your brain didn't expect, so wouldn't interpret the sound correctly.
  

CD

• On the minus side, is a high resolution source, so is highly challenging to the post source electronics, giving far more detail to get wrong, & for the brain to subsequently have to try to correct. Add to that the level of expectation from the higher quality / cost equipment, & things may not sound as good as you'd hope
  
• On the plus side, when you get it right... wow!!! (I love my CDX2 )
  

Is this making any more sense??

J

[This message was edited by Jason Milner on TUESDAY 21 October 2003 at 22:17.]

Do you remember the guy who sold all his Naim kit, 52/250’s/SBL/CDS2/XPS etc. for the digital hub (Apple Mac), I wonder how he’s getting along, probably very well? ...

That's me actually ... the answer is 'Not too well' ... i miss my old system like mad!!! ... Whilst it's all super convenient etc. i find the sound desperately uninvolving even though all my cd's were encoded without compression and i'm using 1,200 UKP worth of active Genelec monitors - the whole thing goes fantastically loud and dynamics are pretty good but at the end of the day i'm afraid that it does sound like a giant ghetto blaster

My current fave sound environment is my car ... the combination of an 8 year old sony radio cassette and pair of very average 5" blaupunkt speakers seems to trash my home mac system as far as involvement goes ... I also find my kitchen system of ipod and harmon kardon pc speakers to work pretty well ... i think these more lo-fi / basic approaches perhaps work rather better.

In fact i'm about to start again with a new proper system but i'm really not sure where to start ...i just know that if i start with nait 5 / cd5 etc. that i'll be planning upgrades from day one ... still it was fun the first time round

Andy

Andy - you are mad, mad, mad (and sad!).
You replaced a great hi-fi for a lifestyle statement.
Get your wallet out and buy it all back!

Paul Rowlands

quote:

---

When hearing music from a less than perfect source, the brain tends to "fill in the gaps", making musical sense out of what may be a less than musical source. In any case, what we "hear" in our heads is always the result of the brain's interpretation of the sound waves reaching the ear,

---

When I lived in France 12 years ago I smoked hash rather a lot and it made music sound much more enjoyable. I got the notion since then that dispite being a depressant drug it actually stimulates perception of colour and sound.

About three years ago I smoked a very small amount of skunk just to see if I'd enjoy the music more through my hi-fi.

I didn't - I just got this ever-so frustating sensation of my brain trying to fill in gaps in the music that actually weren't there.

Now I just drink beer and this leaves me more tuned on an emotional level to the music that is already there without any kind of gap-fill being required, but if ever I have to give up my hi-fi then I suppose I'll have to take up the weed again



Regards,

Steve.

Filling in the gaps

In every hi-fi dem I've ever had and when critically listening to any kit, I find myself NEEDING to fill in the gaps when the sound is not good i.e. I don't sit back and enjoy; I concentrate on filling in gaps. The less gaps your brain has to worry about, the more you can enjoy the music.

I reckon Jamie's close with his theory, that the equipment that "doesn't try to create anything better than it really is" will sound good. It's the "near misses" that piss us all off e.g. Good except for the splashy treble. Good except for the timing! Good except vocals were flat, etc.

!!! There's always money somewhere for the next upgrade... !!!

Naim change

Sorry Jamie, you're name is obviously Jason!

There Are Sins and There Are Sins

Mr. Pig made an observation that Sins of Ommission are much better tolerated than Sins of Comission.

My former Naim system that sounded harsh was commiting sins that I could not live with.

My car system that doesn't do anything nasty but leaves out a lot is OK - my head fills in the missing bits.

But, oh... it IS nice to have more of the missing bits without Sins of Commission. My Nait 5/FC2/Allae setup is doing this. So I enjoy tunes in the car and enjoy them MORE at home.

Sounds ideal to me

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steven Toy:
I smoked hash rather a lot and it made music sound much more enjoyable.

About three years ago I smoked a very small amount of skunk just to see if I'd enjoy the music more through my hi-fi.

I didn't - I just got this ever-so frustating sensation of my brain trying to fill in gaps in the music that actually weren't there.

---

Steve - funny, that. When I used to get mashed in Reading (the only way I could relax in that dump!) my system would sound fairly nasty to me when I was stoned - exactly as you describe - I'd find the brain working hard and I couldn't relax into it.

A couple of weeks ago I went round my ex's house (we're still mates). She's got this blooming awful 70 quid mini, but music was sounding quite good in a band-limited but very rhythmic (surprisingly so) sense. I was fairly blitzed, but my brain wasn't working on it at all. I just soaked the music up.

This is the problem with decent systems - as mentioned (maybe elsewhere) the more you spend, the more your expectations. Sometimes I wish I'd not upgraded from my Sony midi system into the seperates path, as I could listen to that system all the time and not really worry about the deficiencies (surprisingly, for a midi, it wasn't that bad - AND it had source direct!).

Then again, sometimes my main rig sounds ace and I forget all about the "listening to the hifi" bit.

BTW - I can't play MP3s on the work machine - the codecs are disabled and you can't turn them on... MP3s have NEVER got me going on anything other than a cheapo MP3 personal I'm borrowing off a mate - for walking around/post club it's OK.

And yeah, beer is a good upgrade tweak as it muffles your hearing after a few beers, so the hgih end hashiness of a system gets less obvious.

__________________________
Make your choice, adventurous Stranger;
Strike the bell and bide the danger
Or wonder, till it drives you mad,
What would have followed if you had.

Hello,

Maybe because you are being paid to listen?


Regards Robert