Pope dies.

I am also saddened by his death he seemed a great man. Even though he continued supporting the ban on condoms , the aids epidemic in Africa has not been helped by this stance, the contary in fact.

Howard

I think that the vatican has a lot to feel ashamed of.
People don't know how much it is mixed up with politicians and banks.
And how many time they turned the face just not to see.
But in this case i salute the man Karol Wojtyla.

A great man who did much for human rights, political freedom and reconciliation between faiths, he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids and botched the question of sexual abuse amongst the priesthood.

Although not a Christian myself, I'm a firm believer in the value of a strong Church, both to provide a moral compass for our modern atheistic societies and as a counterfoil for Islam. (I appreciate that this view is not widely held on the forum but don't really care - it's mine.)

Because of this belief, I very much hope that John Paul's successor is a reformer. Without reforms - particularly in the area of celibacy for the priesthood - I think that Christianity, or at least Catholicism, will die.

Regards
Steve M

quote:

A great man

"he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids"

err cant have both matey, the bloke was responsible for many deaths due to this
Martin
Religion remains a menace

quote:

A great man who did much for human rights, political freedom and reconciliation between faiths, he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids and botched the question of sexual abuse amongst the priesthood.

Although not a Christian myself, I'm a firm believer in the value of a strong Church, both to provide a moral compass for our modern atheistic societies and as a counterfoil for Islam. (I appreciate that this view is not widely held on the forum but don't really care - it's mine.)

That's because you're a prick.

What a glorious man. We won't see another like him and let us hope we won't need another like him as much as we needed him.

Jim

Yet another well reasoned response from count dick.

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
....he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids...

I think that estimate is at least one order of magnitude out but point taken.

quote:

Although not a Christian myself, I'm a firm believer in the value of a strong Church, both to provide a moral compass for our modern atheistic societies and as a counterfoil for Islam. (I appreciate that this view is not widely held on the forum but don't really care - it's mine.)

Because of this belief, I very much hope that John Paul's successor is a reformer. Without reforms - particularly in the area of celibacy for the priesthood - I think that Christianity, or at least Catholicism, will die.

Regards
Steve M

If the two esoteric Middle Eastern religions want to duke it out that’s just fine. It’ll make a change from them hounding the rest of us. As for the death of Catholicism – well, though not likely, no one can say they didn’t have a good run. Everything has a beginning and an end.

My responses are always well reasoned. Hey Count.dick hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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1:30am, I bet they're all hanging around you for the last laugh of the evening, hey mate?

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Although not a Christian myself, I'm a firm believer in the value of a strong Church, both to provide a moral compass for our modern atheistic societies and as a counterfoil for Islam. (I appreciate that this view is not widely held on the forum but don't really care - it's mine.)

I share your view, Steve, and as a passionate atheist I am saddened by his death.

I have a close and very dear friend who isn't well just now - a Catholic - I wish I had it in me to pray for him... but of course I haven't.

I suppose what will be will be, but it's still nice if someone cares at the end of the day. If no one cares, then that's it, we've all lost.

EW

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
If the two esoteric Middle Eastern religions want to duke it out that’s just fine. It’ll make a change from them hounding the rest of us. As for the death of Catholicism – well, though not likely, no one can say they didn’t have a good run. Everything has a beginning and an end.

Harry,

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "esoteric" Middle Eastern religions?

Cheers,

Jon

I hate all religion, and my detestation of the more... er... enthusiastic manifestations of it from out east get my dander up.

But I think the Holy Father did something in his own way by at least showing that one should care: a bit simplistic, kitsch and effusive by my standards, but there it is. Frankly, I have to work at it, but perhaps that's my failing as a human being.

quote:

Originally posted by Martin D:

quote:

A great man

"he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids"

err cant have both matey, the bloke was responsible for many deaths due to this
Martin
Religion remains a menace

Martin D

Not sure I agree with this. Great men all have their failings.

Also, I think it is a stretch of the imagination to conceive of a Pope changing a doctrine (ie: birth control) that is at the fundament of Roman Catholic belief in order minimise the harm done by sexual promiscuity - the proscription of which is quite basic to Church doctrine as well.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by Martin D:

quote:

A great man

"he nevertheless failed the people in Africa who are dying in their thousands from Aids"

err cant have both matey

Can't agree Martin. As long as humans are humans even the greats will have their flaws - Winston Churchill comes to mind as an obvious example.

Regards
Steve M

quote:

Originally posted by Earwicker:
Frankly, I have to work at it, but perhaps that's my failing as a human being.

We all have to work at it (even pricks).

Please don't take this as condescending or patronising but clearly you do care.

Regards
Steve M

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Please don't take this as condescending or patronising but clearly you do care.

Regards
Steve M

I care very much. I respect your opinions, and I am sorry, genuinely, that you think I'm a prick.

EW

What? Of course I don't think that.

Sorry. the 'even pricks' comment was supposed to be self-deprecating. I was referring to the comment made about me (at 23:42), not you in any way whatsoever.

Gosh, things can get heavy quickly, can't they?

Regards
Steve M

Earwicker

I think Steve M was referring to Count.d's complex and detailed response to his own post. My perception of 7V from reading his posts on this forum is that he is a gentleman. His humour is self-deprecating in this instance.

Deane

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
Gosh, things can get heavy quickly, can't they?

Well..the pope died, which is the subject of this thread, so I guess that's pretty heavy innit..

quote:

Originally posted by 7V:
What? Of course I don't think that.

Sorry. the 'even pricks' comment was supposed to be self-deprecating. I was referring to the comment made about me (at 23:42), not you in any way whatsoever.

Gosh, things can get heavy quickly, can't they?

Regards
Steve M

Sorry, Steve, I'm getting a bit tired. Nothing heavy, no offence... but I'm suffering from CHRONIC insomnia and my concentration lets me down.

We'll have a beer if we ever meet.

EW

quote:

I think Steve M was referring to Count.d's complex and detailed response to his own post. My perception of 7V from reading his posts on this forum is that he is a gentleman

My post was just as informative and detailed, but less offensive, than the basic and naive one made by 7V.

7V a gentleman! some of you guys have no idea how to present yourselves.

Take your own medicine and see how the word prick becomes an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:

quote:

I think Steve M was referring to Count.d's complex and detailed response to his own post. My perception of 7V from reading his posts on this forum is that he is a gentleman

My post was just as informative and detailed, but less offensive, than the basic and naive one made by 7V.

7V a gentleman! some of you guys have no idea how to present yourselves.

Take your own medicine and see how the word prick becomes an issue.

Yeah right. So your "informative and detailed" post addressed the naivete in 7V's post? Insulting him with offensive language presents you well?

I can't find my medicine Count.d. Please, show me where it is.

Deane

Yes we all have failings. I'm sad that my elder son may not achieve what he should have in academic terms because I tried too hard to be his pal.

This pope's failings are on quite a different scale. He's been responsible for thousands of deaths in Africa because the Catholic church has been telling lies about AIDS and condoms.

No hypocrisy here. Sadness at the death of an individual. Yes. He was undoubtedly a charismatic man who should have been spared the indignity of being wheeled out for display when he clearly was very ill in his final days. Utter contempt though for an institution based on such fear and indoctrination.

Conspiracy theory:

Pope JP1 (the reformer) was bumped off after only one month in order to make way for JP2 the reactionary.

Now the reactionary has gone what next?

I do think JP2 was basically a good guy, but for the Catholic Church to lie about the effectiveness of condoms in offering protection against HIV in order not to undermine the Catholic notion of procreation unlimited, i.e: the more souls the better, does not strike me as morally or ethically sound.

Chaps

Our resident over educated moron has now come up with this glittering piece of genius.

"Pope JP1 (the reformer) was bumped off after only one month in order to make way for JP2 the reactionary.

1. There is absolutely no evidence to show that the man was "bumped off". It was pure journalistic speculation.

2, JP2 was elected after several ballots and it is impossible to predetermine who is going to be the next Pope, let alone elect a reactionary.

Did we pay for this idiots education so that he can come up with schoolboy garbage such as this.

Regards

Mick