naim dac + ipod connected on usb port

What I found with USB key and dac:
1. it has to be wav files, not flac or apple lossless
2. music Files have to be in one single folder or the root folder. No other files or folders allowed in the USB key
3. Some older USB keys don't work
4. I think it supports FAT file system only
5. Does not work with the remote.

Thanks, I'll give it a try

I confirm usb stick behavior.
I compared:
o usb stick storing .wav files created with exact audio copy
o ipod storing apple lossless format

I could not tell the difference (music quality)

The only difference is that prev/next buttons work when using the usb stick, not with the ipod (remote does not work in both cases)

There's a world of difference between usb stick and ipod playback with the Ndac. The former is especially good, the latter is very ordinary.

I don't understand how iPod playback should be 'inferior' to USB stick playback ? - I thought, with the Apple certification, it was a digital out from the iPod straight into the DAC.....?

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
I don't understand how iPod playback should be 'inferior' to USB stick playback ? - I thought, with the Apple certification, it was a digital out from the iPod straight into the DAC.....?

Not just "inferior" but "a world of difference", apparently.

Just in case, I want to mention that the ipod is connected through its direct usb link. Consequently, I bypass its internal dac and amplifier.
It is only used as a storage and feeds the naim dac.
If you look at the schematic of the dac available in the white pages, there is no reason why connecting an ipod or a usb stick should make any difference.

quote:

Not just "inferior" but "a world of difference", apparently.

Yes it relegates the DAC to background listening only, it is that bad.

It is NOTHING compared to the differences between FLAC level 8 vs FLAC level 3 though.



-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
What I found with USB key and dac:
1. it has to be wav files, not flac or apple lossless
2. music Files have to be in one single folder or the root folder. No other files or folders allowed in the USB key
3. Some older USB keys don't work
4. I think it supports FAT file system only
5. Does not work with the remote.

Regarding. 2:
I can positively confirm that a USB-stick does not require the files to be in root or in one folder.

I have put two albums each in its own folder and both are played in order. Albums are scanned in alphabetical order and the tracks according to name (named as 01. <title>.wav, 02. <title>.wav etc)

Besides these two folders with the albums I also have one other folder with some non-music files. This doesn't influence playback at all.

Regarding 5.
USB playback does respond to control by Naim remote:

quote:

When USB is not docked (input selection):
"7" = select input 1
"8" = select input 2
"9" = select input 3
"0" = select input 4

"select" = dock/undock front USB-connector

When USB is docked (playback control USB):
"7" = previous
"8" = next
"9" = stop
"0" = play/pause

-
aleg

aleg,

Thanks for straightening me out. Now I will have to experiment again WRT folders. I should've experiment more.

Thanks also for the remote tip. I dont think it was mentioned in the manual was it?

quote:

Originally posted by JYOW:
aleg,

Thanks for straightening me out. Now I will have to experiment again WRT folders. I should've experiment more.

Thanks also for the remote tip. I dont think it was mentioned in the manual was it?

No, the manual just mentions the input selection.

Nico (?) pointed out some of the other functions to me and I managed to find the rest to complete the picture.

For USB stick, I use the Memorette Gold (the one ferenc mentioned a while ago) straight and clean out of the box. Maybe its pristine condition has somehing to do with it?

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by lthe:
If you look at the schematic of the dac available in the white pages, there is no reason why connecting an ipod or a usb stick should make any difference.

Exactly. Indeed, Naim made a big deal of being the first DAC certified to take the direct digital feed from the iPod...

I very much doubt Naim went to the trouble of including the feature merely for it to result in 'background listening'.......

p.s. I have to say, I really don't understand the whole USB stick thing..! I just don't see the point...I mean it's fine for demo situations or if a friend drops in with some music you've never heard (basically infrequent events), but as a source ? - seems bizarre to me, unless the next media fad is to have shelves full of USB sticks...?!

Hmm. Speculation and more speculation. Is Keith the only contributor that has actually sat down and done the comparison?

Joe

Guys,

To give my findings;

Ipod via front USB in DAC : Ok, but limited on detail, soundstage, and depth.

Memory Stick via front USB in DAC : Fantastic extended bass, much more detail, and fuller soundstage.

There really is a big difference, to the point that i am bored with music on the memory stick !!

Regards

Justin

quote:

Originally posted by Justin9960:
Guys,

To give my findings;

Ipod via front USB in DAC : Ok, but limited on detail, soundstage, and depth.

Memory Stick via front USB in DAC : Fantastic extended bass, much more detail, and fuller soundstage.

There really is a big difference, to the point that i am bored with music on the memory stick !!

Regards

Justin

Hi Justin -

I think you mean "bored with music on the Ipod"?

Have tried both, but only using MP3. All of my music is Flac level 0, and converted to 320kbps MP3 for Ipod use. With MP3, I hear little, if any difference between USB and Ipod inputs.

Of course higher rez sounds best, but I am really enjoying what the DAC/XPS2 does with Rhapsody, Radio Paradise, etc.

Hook

Justin,
Is your experience with the ipod and usb sticks with both using WAV format?
My experience with the Wadia i70 leads me to believe that music taken digitally from the ipod can be very involving and musical, (at least through the Supernaits DAC).
I would think the Naim DAC would be better, but I have not had the chance to compare yet.
Nat

Hook,

How did you manage to play MP3s from the usb stick? I was under the impression it only accepts wav. If you converted MP3 to wav you will have lost alot of information.

Keith

I compared .wav created by exact audio copy stored on the usb stick with the ipod containing the same music stored in apple lossless format and did not notice any difference in sound quality (naim dac+naim5i+dynaudio focus140)

My setup must have been revealing something that was unwanted.

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:
Hook,

How did you manage to play MP3s from the usb stick? I was under the impression it only accepts wav. If you converted MP3 to wav you will have lost alot of information.

Keith

Hi Keith -

Used Audacity to open MP3 files, then exported them as WAV to a USB stick. Maybe not a 100% fair comparison, but it seemed easier than adding/syncing/deleting/syncing WAV files to my Ipod. Did not put a lot of time into comparing Ipod and USB stick. Will only be using the USB port if friends & family bring over their own USB sticks and/or Ipods.

Was more interested in using the USB port as a reference point for comparing lossless audio sources. Spent a fair amount of time comparing 16/44.1 WAV files via USB to their Flac equivalents via S/PDIF. USB stick was better than my old setup (Laptop->USB->M-audio Transit->Toslink->DAC). Can not tell the difference between USB stick and my new setup (PC with RME 9632->BNC->DAC).

Hook

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:

If you converted MP3 to wav you will have lost a lot of information.

Keith

Huh? I wouldn't have thought so.

quote:

Originally posted by winkyincanada:

quote:

Originally posted by Keith L:

If you converted MP3 to wav you will have lost a lot of information.

Keith

Huh? I wouldn't have thought so.

It's not the converting from MP3 to WAV that looses the information.

It is having the MP3 instead of the original WAV, where you already have lost information in compressing it into MP3.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by SC:
I don't understand how iPod playback should be 'inferior' to USB stick playback ? - I thought, with the Apple certification, it was a digital out from the iPod straight into the DAC.....?

SC, below is a quote from a post Feb 16 by me:

Did listen to MacBook Pro using iTunes and iTunes rips (WAV and AIFF and apple lossless) via Chord Optichord 3m mini to TOS and compared the same files coming from iTunes on Touch via USB and from MBP via UPnP, using Touch as the controller/renderer into USB again and found that the UPnP delivered files sounded well better than the two iTunes delivered files. Both iTunes were set flat and clean.

I'm freaked out.

This was using PL on DAC, recapped Nait2, nSATS on nStands, using NACA5 and standard interconnect. Dedicated mains spur.

I get the iTunes on the Mac not sounding so great, but why a difference out of the Touch between iTunes and UPnP? Anyone?

SC, ---So for some reason the pathway/software that the music file experiences on its way from the iPod Touch into the USB is different for the files coming from the onboard iTunes library verses those coming from the iTunes library on the Macbook Pro via Wi-Fi, through the router, out to the Touch and then out to the DAC.

So I could see a USB stick playing the same file as the Touch has on it sounding better than the Touch.

With Apple certification, the digital does come out of the iPod and into the DAC. It's just not the straight story as far as my experiences show.

Thanks for the feedback...

It's a real shame there does - according to reports - seem to be a difference....

Steve.

I'm sure I read somewhere that even though the iPod's output to the Ndac is digital, there's something in the iTunes software which is integral to iPod playback that's interfering with sound quality.