Adventures in folk music and other cross-pollinations

Good luck with it Mike...I should clarify though, I'm no expert...just the fruits of my anorakish labour...I don't look like an Open University lecturer or owt.

The Nick Drake is a simple and appealing music.

Very pleasant.

When I listen to vocal music, I pretty much ignore the lyrics on the first few listens, to become familiar with the musical underpinnings. Only later do I give consideration to the words.

This is not necessary with the Nick Drake. The musical superstructure is so simple and direct, it can be completely comprehended on first listen.

So I am going to try something different next time around. I will pay close attention to the words, and treat the music itself as an accompaniment to the story.

I haven't listened to music that way in a very long time, but suspect it is fundamental to appreciating Nick Drake as he intended.

When in Rome ...

Munch, I am not done with this music. I will listen many more times.

As you suggest, I will listen to the strings.

Just finished another listen, and wanted to make note of a few things.

Nick Drake is poetry set to music.

In a narrative such as a novel, a story will unfold, and, if it is good, you will have an emotional response to the consequences.

In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

I need the dinner and drinks first, thank you :-)

The directness of poetry doesn't allow me the space I need to have an emotional response.

With the greatest classical music, my response to a work is much quicker.

Words can induce a mood in me, but it has to soak in for a while first.

Music in a pure form taps directly into my emotions, and brings my soul out into the Sun.
It makes me open to anything, emotionally. Music must be handled with care :-)

I will listen several more times, and try to love what I hear, but at this point it is out of want.

I want to hear what Mat Cork hears :-)

That's at the root of love of music, striving for communion.

So I guess I am already enjoying this, but probably not in the way Mat expected ...

I tried to give Mike some signposts on the development of folk in England. It's a tough call...no Incredible String Band? Only one track per artist? which Drake track to pick?

A great bit of fun though.

Mike

was I dreaming or dis you start a thread on cable directionality?

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

I disagree...

quote:

Originally posted by paulr0414:
Mike

was I dreaming or dis you start a thread on cable directionality?

I did and it was a disaster.

Three separate flames from three different quarters descended on the thread in a single day.

No one reported any thing specific.

It got vaporized.

But here I'm talking about folk music.

Any thoughts on that?

quote:

Originally posted by Voltaire:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

I disagree...

That's not a helpful response. Please explain yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by Voltaire:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

I disagree...

That's not a helpful response. Please explain yourself.

Sorry Mike

I will happily debate the point in another thread or another time but I don't want to hijack (detract from) the original post because I am interested to see where it is going.

Gordon

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by paulr0414:
Mike

was I dreaming or dis you start a thread on cable directionality?

I did and it was a disaster.

Three separate flames from three different quarters descended on the thread in a single day.

No one reported any thing specific.

It got vaporized.

But here I'm talking about folk music.

Any thoughts on that?

No sorry - it's a genre that I've only touched on via artists straying.

Sorry to intrude on your thread, bad manners on my part but I wanted to check whether I needed to send myself off on some R&R.

Good luck, p

quote:

Originally posted by Voltaire:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

quote:

Originally posted by Voltaire:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

I disagree...

That's not a helpful response. Please explain yourself.

Sorry Mike

I will happily debate the point in another thread or another time but I don't want to hijack (detract from) the original post because I am interested to see where it is going.

Gordon

Now you are part of where it's going. I have raised the issue that Nick Drake is poetry set to music, with the music as simple accompaniment, and said that poetry is too direct for me, my emotions rising only slowly.

I speculated that poetry is all about direct emotional response.

You don't think so.

Explain yourself :-)

Any chance I can just repeat a quote?

quote:

The whole problem can be stated quite simply by asking, 'Is there a meaning to music?' My answer would be, 'Yes.' And 'Can you state in so many words what the meaning is?' My answer to that would be, 'No.'
Aaron Copland (1900 - 1990)

PS-now you are changing the parameters of your premise. You originally said

quote:

In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

which is untrue. Now you are saying

quote:

that poetry is all about direct emotional response.

which is true.

And as I predicted we have strayed away from the original post.

quote:

Originally posted by Voltaire:
Any chance I can just repeat a quote?

quote:

The whole problem can be stated quite simply by asking, 'Is there a meaning to music?' My answer would be, 'Yes.' And 'Can you state in so many words what the meaning is?' My answer to that would be, 'No.'
Aaron Copland (1900 - 1990)

PS-now you are changing the parameters of the premise. You originally said

quote:

In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries. You go straight to the emotional consequences.

which is untrue. Now you are saying

quote:

that poetry is all about direct emotional response.

which is true.

So you object to the statement that they skip all the preliminaries in poetry.

In the context of Nick Drake, I think myself right.

The pieces are too short to produce a sustained emotional response, at least for me. And the music doesn't do enough to help things along. But these are all preliminary observation.

Six more listens may put me in an altogether different place ...

It's interesting that I accept the same emotional appeals from any number of R & B bands, many of them local.

That is due, at least in part, because I learned them almost before I could speak.

Such is the human condition ...

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
So you object to the statement that they skip all the preliminaries in poetry.

Yes, hence why I posted "I disagree", when you posted

quote:

In poetry, they skip all the preliminaries.

As an Open University lecturer (Sorry Mat-no picture) I prefer to seperate issues and examine them methodically. With the greatest of respect Mike, your post throws up soo many issues I don't know where to start so I will leave it here before I lose all grip on reality.

quote:

Originally posted by munch:
Mike have you just got one Nick Drake track to play with??

I have all 12 tracks of Nick Drake - Northern Sky.

Voltaire - apologes mate

I had a bit of email traffic with Mike prior to this. I provided about 10 tracks on a theme - in this case my take (only my opinion on it fwiw) on how English folk has evolved from it's roots, to the present day.

I chose the tracks to show an evolution based on music and the social environment. The idea was to provide Mike with some music which would require listening in a different manner to that which he was used to...so this was my choice. Equally I could have picked electronica or whatever.

At the same time, I wanted Mike to apply his approach to listening to music to the selection as well.

Just an experiment really. As I said to Mike, you may not like the music, but I hope he enjoys the experience.

FYI the tracks suggested were:
Anne Briggs – Lowlands
Anne Briggs – Blackwater Side
Lindisfarne and Sandy Denny – Who Know’s Where the Time Goes
Nick Drake – Northern Sky
John Fahey – Mark 1:15 (you may also like Dvorak from same)
John Martyn – Solid Air (Solid Air) and Small Hours (One World)
Richard Thompson – Beeswing
Chris Wood – The Cottagers Reply
The Levellers – The Road or
Half Man, Half Biscuit. The Cammell Laird Social Club album

...and yeah, yeah, I know Fahey was American and Martyn a (sort of) Scot.

I can see this degenerating into a 'Best Nick Drake' track thread.

Munch, I think Mike meant Byter Layter, I gave the album titles with the tracks. Tough picking one Drake track.

quote:

Originally posted by Mat Cork:
Voltaire - apologes mate

I had a bit of email traffic with Mike prior to this. I provided about 10 tracks on a theme - in this case my take (only my opinion on it fwiw) on how English folk has evolved from it's roots, to the present day.

I chose the tracks to show an evolution based on music and the social environment. The idea was to provide Mike with some music which would require listening in a different manner to that which he was used to...so this was my choice. Equally I could have picked electronica or whatever.

At the same time, I wanted Mike to apply his approach to listening to music to the selection as well.

Ah, one of the missing links in the puzzle!

Gordon

Could do worse than dip into this sampler

Mike & Matt,


You know, up until this thread I hadn't realised that throughout my whole life that I have never once questioned why I like music or a particular piece of music. I have just always liked music, I suppose music has always been a visceral experience rather than an emotional or intellectual one. I just know if I like something or if I should pursue a piece of music more. I work on a completely different plane to you Mike, not sure about you Matt.


Now the question is, does this approach lend it self to a much wider interest in musical styles and genres?



As my good friend Mr Terry "552" Franks says "Dino your tastes are rather eclectic"



Dean...

W...lot's of people aren't sure about me mate

No, I love music for lot's of different reasons. My discussions with Mike on other threads triggered our discussion. The particular point which we were discussing was my suggestion that part of the reason I love some music is it's context (where it comes from, stories told, artwork etc).

I was just playing the Blitzkrieg Bop...no idea why, but it made me feel good.

Matt,


I've read the other thread and understand the point of this one. I suppose its Mike's intellectual approach to music through his musings in the music room that has lead me to this epiphany tonight, thanks Mike . I would like to understand music more on a intellectual basis as Mike does and I know it would help me gain more pleasure from my music collection. Though, and this is my point and some advise to Mike do not let it be at the detriment of losing a childlike approach to the wonders of the multitude of different styles and genres that exist in the world.



Dean....

This is not going to stop with Nick Drake. Today's only my first day at this. It deserves a proper visit, and that is what it is going to get.

The thread is already fun :-)

Tonight I have a triple header :

Nick Drake one last time for the day.

Hewitt lecturing on how to play Bach.

The LA Phil doing John Adam's "City Noir"

Talk to you tomorrow.

I think you think too much ,analyse too much, it's only music. It moves you or it doesn't, you don't(well I don't) need to know why. YMMV

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
I think you think too much ,analyse too much, it's only music. It moves you or it doesn't, you don't(well I don't) need to know why. YMMV

It's only music?

Music is the very voice of God, speaking to humankind of love and death.

It needs to be attended to carefully, to imprint the words given on the soul.