Adventures in folk music and other cross-pollinations

There are even religious groups in America, and elsewhere that think any music is the devils work.

Now that IS a dynamite thread BigH47.

I like Kinky Friedman's quote "Country makes your eyes wet. Rock n' Roll makes your crotch wet".

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no Incredible String Band?

Denied

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any music is the devils work.

Not quite so - for was it not said that

God gave rock'n'roll to you, gave rock'n'roll to you
Put it in the soul of ev'ryone
God gave rock'n'roll to you, gave rock'n'roll to you
Save rock'n'roll for ev'ryone

Love your friend and love your neighbour
Love your life and love your labour
No, it's never too late to change your mind
Don't step on snails, don't climb in trees
Love Cliff Richard but please don't tease
It's never too late to change your mind

quote:

Originally posted by Mat Cork:
Anne Briggs – Lowlands
Anne Briggs – Blackwater Side
Lindisfarne and Sandy Denny – Who Know’s Where the Time Goes
Nick Drake – Northern Sky
John Fahey – Mark 1:15 (you may also like Dvorak from same)
John Martyn – Solid Air (Solid Air) and Small Hours (One World)
Richard Thompson – Beeswing
Chris Wood – The Cottagers Reply
The Levellers – The Road or
Half Man, Half Biscuit. The Cammell Laird Social Club album

What a good selection

I would suggest that Anthems in Eden by Shirley Collins is added. And the aforementioned Incredible String Band made some great records - especial 5000 Spirits and Hangman's Beautiful Daughter.

I went poking around Amazon and found a single tune from "Three Score & Ten" by searching for Anne Briggs – Blackwater Side, which I downloaded as an mp3.

Haunting melody with a minimal musical accompaniment on guitar. Very nice with coffee on a cool October Sunday morning.

A cup of weak tea can be nice, but it doesn't satisfy like a shot of bourbon :-)

It's only been two days and two albums, and I am already more accepting of folk music, and have a better idea of Mat Cork's musical sensibilities than before I started.

That is worth something in and of itself, no matter what else comes in future.

Went back to Amazon to find Lindisfarne and Sandy Denny – "Who Know’s Where the Time Goes", which is over $100!!!

I listened to the samples provided, 20+ tunes to have a listen.

I am struck by the similarity of the tunes. No variation in color. One mood permeates the entire album. I find myself yearning for a key change, and for a singer whose voice is not all up in her mouth.

I think I will spend the rest of the day with Bach and Stravinsky.

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"Who Know’s Where the Time Goes"

I don't know the Lindisfarne backed version of Sandy's masterpiece, but you could try either Unhalfbricking. which is the Fairport Convention elpee that brought the song to prominence or History of Fairport Convention, which also contains this song and other Fairport highlights. The song was originally penned by Sandy when she was with the Strawbs (however, the original is hard to get these days, but my favourite version of this truly great song).

Sandy was lead singer for Fairport Convention on several elpees including the ground breaking Liege and Lief. Fairport rocked up traditional songs on this album and created the folk rock idiom - though contemporaries such as Trees were just as good in their own way.

The whole genre was a natural development of what Shirley Collins created when she revived folk music in the late 50s and early 60s. Without Shirley I doubt this would have happened - many folk musicians shunned Shirley such as Martin Carthy and friends, but this was sheer jealously as they were simply not in the same league, although good in their own right they had neither Shirley's talent nor imagination. Sandy, on the other hand, was a great admirer of Shirley and that helped Sandy to create something very special. Fairport guitarist Richard Thompson also realised Shirley Collins was head and shoulders above the rest. The others who were clearly on Shirley's side were Clive Palmer, Robin Williamson and Mike Heron - known as Incredible String Band - ISB backed Shirley on The Power of the True Love Knot - another wonderful album.

If you want to sample Lindisfarne then it is their debut elpee Nicely Out of Tune that is usually considered their best - a fine underrated band.

Anne Briggs was excellent - though nothing like Shirley in character - Anne was wild. Why didn't she make more records? Simple - she heard her own records and didn't like them. In fact she grew to dislike her own voice. If you listen to Anne then you'll wonder, like me, what was this all about - she's a great singer.

There are lots of great folk artists and so much to explore that is enchanting and wonderful. That is why it has survived from the dawn of time and will be with us when other genres have come and gone. From John Dowland to Karine Polwart - folk music remains alive and well and flourishing.

ATB Rotf

RTOF you encourage me to continue :-) Thank you.

ROTF

I think your admiration (infatuation?) for Shirley Collins clouds your judgement.

Whilst an important figure in the revival, she was by no means the only one and her voice is very much an acquired taste. I don't know that she was shunned as you claim by Martin Carthy (and, presumably the Watersons) and would like to see some proof of that before commenting further.

Sorry for the multiple posts, things just keep occurring to me.

One thing I am enjoying very much in listening to folk music, is that it makes no demands of me. I can listen and let the emotion wash over me. That is impossible with classical music, at least for me. So many things happen in classical music, the story has so many parts, you have to pay close attention. A bit like reading Thomas Hardy :-) Certainly, that is not always what you want.

I grew up in a foster home in New Orleans with 9 other kids. It was the early fifties. A big house with an enormous attic fan, big french windows, and no air conditioning. In the summer months without school, we would be awakened in the middle of the night by music from a nightclub, about three blocks away. It was always jazz or R & B.

We would sneak out and go down the street, sitting against the wall across from the nightclub, which happened to be the Brown's Velvet Dairy. Sometimes, the night workers at the dairy would sneak us ice creams.

We would listen for hours.

To this day, I accept that music without hesitation. It is part of who I am. I don't think folk music will ever give me that feeling, for which I am sad. But maybe some adult feeling of that same ilk will make itself apparent if I keep on listening.

In eternal search for the ultimate musical high.

Mike, ROTF...apologies.

I was just reading ROTF's post wondering what on earth he was on about...Unhalfbricking! How hard can it be...ah.

I typed that orginal message for Mike at 2am having (literally) been up for days with a newborn. Of course ROTF, just a daft typo...forget Lindisfarne, I mean't to say Fairport Convention. Sorry...didn't actually know Sandy had even done a version with them though Mike...so well hunted down.

Agreed ROTF, folk is a great genre for spanning huge ages etc. I was going to add a Shirley Collins track after the first Ann Briggs track...but I was trying to tell a story for Mike, and couldn't think of an example that fitted the bill. So many to leave out really, Bert Jansch, Gregson/Collister. etc.

I'm going to slow this down, and take on one album a month, until I don't want to do it any more.

I want to give it a chance.

First impressions are that the lyrics have to be paid attention to, to which the music plays a secondary role.

There is not much invention in rhythm and harmony, as I enjoy.

But it's not unpleasant, and there have been moments I enjoyed.

Folk has it's roots in story telling told to music, mainly portable instruments and people. Therefore probably more emphasis on the words, set in a relative simple melody.
Some exponents advance the musicality, others keep it more "traditional".
There were the 'folk" wars middle of last century, one side electrifying, the other still putting one hand over their ears, and making an exact rendition of a 200 year old tune, if such a thing was even possible.

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First impressions are that the lyrics have to be paid attention to, to which the music plays a secondary role.

Yes for the most part that's true of all good songs for me - the music complements the story. Although at its best it all components are of a very high standard. Hence my suggestion of Anthems in Eden. As a singer Shirley Collins is the very best - the only vocalist who comes anywhere near is the wonderful Annie Haslam - however the music on Anthems in Eden is quite superb: I doubt you'll find any classical work the truly surpasses it. Lyrically the song cycle is traditional, but expertly chosen. Anthems in Eden is little short of the definitive record of the genre.

A less well known landmark folk revival album is Moyshe Mcstiff and the Tartan Lancers of the Sacred Heart by C.O.B. This is conceived by Clive Palmer a founder member of Incredible String Band and produced by Ralph McTell. The bass playing is beyond reproach and lets this record transcend above the norm - the bassist is Danny Thompson,

The introduction of electric instruments is a natural progression though neither Anthems nor Moyshe Mcstiff use electrified instruments.

There is some quintessentially English about my favourite folk music.

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the other still putting one hand over their ears

the Ewan MacCollites, but nobody listens to that lot - do they?

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the Martin Carthyites, but nobody listens to that lot - do they?

I was thinking more about Ewan MaCcoll, Martin Carthy is a bit more open to new stuff, like the folk big bands etc. I think his daughter helped him to a more modern attitude. Ewan's daughter failed.

quote:

Originally posted by Derry:
ROTF

I think your admiration (infatuation?) for Shirley Collins clouds your judgement.

Whilst an important figure in the revival, she was by no means the only one and her voice is very much an acquired taste. I don't know that she was shunned as you claim by Martin Carthy (and, presumably the Watersons) and would like to see some proof of that before commenting further.

My apologies to Martin Carthy and my thanks to you Derry for pointing out the error of my ways. I'm also indebted to Howard who spotted my gross error. It was not Martin Carthy at all, but Ewan MacColl that I meant to say. An unfortunate slip on my part.

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Anthems in Eden. Shirley Collins

This will be the next album I get.

Just checked pricing on Amazon. Why is folk music so damn expensive?

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Originally posted by mikeeschman:

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Anthems in Eden. Shirley Collins

This will be the next album I get.

Just checked pricing on Amazon. Why is folk music so damn expensive?

Try Shirley and Dolly Collins The Harvest Years - it has Anthems in full plus a lot of Shirley's other material. It is a much cheaper way to get Anthems - please click

Shirley Collins - vocals
Adam Skeaping - bass viol
Roderick Skeaping - rebec, treble and bass viol
Oliver Brookes - bass viol
Michael Laird - cornett
Richard Lee - descant and treble recorder
Alan Lumsden - sackbut
Christopher Hogwood - harpsichord
Dolly Collins - portative organ
Gillian Ried - bells
David Munrow - soprano and alto crumhorn, bass rackett, tenor sordun, treble recorder
Chorus: on "The Home Brew": Michael Clifton, Ray Worman, John Fordham plus Royston Wood, Steve Ashley and John Morgan.

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Shirley and Dolly Collins The Harvest Years

got it. thanks ROTF, it was less than half the price.

This is great...nice work ROTF. My list was based on an evolution (as I see it) of folk...but the main thing I wanted was for Mike to have something new to listen to, which would need a look at how folk evolved, the different elements and whether he enjoyed or learnt anything from what he heard.

Following the list's not important...having a bit of a musical adventure is. You've got Mike buying even more folk now

Respect to Mike as well for being up for the challenge.

One of the appeals of folk music is to be able to look back across the centuries and feel what those who came before felt.

Last night, I gave the folk music a rest, and put on David Munrow's "Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance". It is a 2 cd set (I also have the LPs, which come with a terrific book) that spans the 5th thru 15th centuries using secular music for a zoo full of instruments that are struck, blown, plucked, strummed and other techniques difficult to describe in a few words.

The groups and soloists play with great energy and abandon, as this music deserves.

The tonal range here is stupendous!

If the oldness of it is what attracts you to folk, then this should be given a try.

Lots of fun too.

There is no other album like this one.

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There is no other album like this one.

David Munrow worked with Shirley on Anthems. That he committed suicide after his father and father-in-law had died is one of the saddest things ever. David was a wonderful talent.

I love David's Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance - everybody should hear it as part of their education.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
David Munrow worked with Shirley on Anthems.

That is on the way and should be in my hands next week. The fact that Munrow worked on it has my curiosity up :-)

"The Harvest Years" by Shirley & Dolly Collins came about 45 minutes ago, and we are listening to it right now (track 7).

We were immediately delighted to hear a renaissance band, and treated to a female voice with natural trumpet in a counter-voice. Nice start!

Now everything sounds the same (at track 7). The chord progressions are very straight forward, and without much variation. The novelty of the instrumentation has worn off.
Nothing much happens with rhythm.

Early this morning, I had listened to Bach's "St. Matthews Passion", which is full of wonderful songs, that display the many sides of the human psyche. That is still in my ears.

It probably wasn't a good play list.

I'll give it morning duty tomorrow.