Adventures in folk music and other cross-pollinations

Mike

If you think folk music is going to be anythng like (or should be like) "western art music" you are on a loser from the start.

quote:

Originally posted by Derry:
Mike

If you think folk music is going to be anythng like (or should be like) "western art music" you are on a loser from the start.

Give me a hint.

I think you're missing the point a bit from the list to be honest though Mike.

The list was an evolution of a genre, seeing the music change in response to social stuff, how story telling and playing has changed over time, but some things have stayed the same.

An additional part of that, is to then use your approaches to listening to see what that adds.

At the moment mate, you seem to be concentrating on the latter. The point of the exercise though Mike, is that to enjoy other genres than you're used to, you have to approach the listening from a different perspective.

I've work with a chap who hate classical because, it's lacks any lyrics with a modern meaning. I always suggest that from that perspective, he'll never get it...he'll need to listen for different things.

I dunno...for a start, what would interest me here would be how you could compare the lyrics of St Matthew's with those of the folk you've been listening to. Forgetting the language, one of the key issues for me would be:

1)One tells me tales of lives and loves I can identify with. Stories wonderfully told;

2)The other provides (and my memory could be sketchy here) the gospel of St Matthew + narrative to music.

Now I'm a staunch non-believer, so to me the lyrics of 2 (even if I understand the language) are never going to mean much to me. The lyrics of 1 fascinate me. I don't know your beliefs Mike (and I know it's a sensitive issue with believers) I can see how if you are a linguistic Christian, the lyrics of this piece could be extremely emotive. But if you're not, I find it hard to see how lyrically, it can hit the spot.

The above is looking at it from a perspective suggested for the list of folk tracks, provided. Story's of everyday life through the ages. Social recording to some degree. So the exercise will be fruitless, if this perspective isn't sought.

If you simply approach the exercise from the theoretical basis you apply to classical Mike, I can't see it being much fun.

As an aside, my memories of the Bach are that it contains some wonderful music. But this exercise is about music in other contexts.

I'd find it very hard for me to justify the Bach lyrically.

I was raised Catholic, so the lyrics of the Passion have meaning for me. Within that context, the Passion is profoundly lyrical.

We are doing quite different things when we listen, Mat.

Maybe folk music just isn't for me.

Yep it could well be that in classical you have found a niche Mike...and let's be honest, it's all about finding music you love to enrich your life. On here folk have generally found their niche in a genre, lots of genres or specific genres - it must be a good thing to know what we love and why.

Not a fruitless exercise though Mike, you can now say to folk, I don't like folk because...I'm sure you'll justifiably use that one on me during some future spat

I will not say I do not like folk. Learning something about folk here on the forum has been rewarding, and for that I say thank you.

I will keep what I have, and listen to it from time to time.

If the opportunity arises, I will say something complementary about folk music, from what little I know.

This was fun :-)

Likewise mate.

Mat, I still look forward to your comments on the Munrow Middle Ages set.

Yep, I'll report back Mike.

I have to make one last comment on the Nick Drake and the Collins CDs. The most essential thing to get right in any music is to have a rock solid rhythm and a faultless intonation. If you don't have that, you haven't got anything.

Both these bands get it right in this regard.

When that happens, you always get music worth a listen, and these are no exception.

I won the Royal Mail lottery today and received my copy of the David Munrow cd. I listened to it on my commute and then again at work several times today...I'm listening to it now, with the dogs and daughter. They seem to like it.

An excellent recommendation Mike. I now consider it a must have disk. I know a lot of folk talk about the Master Musicians of Jajouka as being a window back to the distant past and the origins of rock. I'd add the Munrow disk to that - it's an amazing insight into music that sounds timeless.

There's lots of great stuff on there, and it is a mixed bag - but the long necked lute and six holed pipe tracks stand out at the moment for me. It's the sound of a 'band' playing, a group of folk, jamming...music in a social context and it sounds like great fun.

Listening to it, you can hear the origins of folk, music of the common man (and woman)...I felt like I needed a pint of Mead and a slab of yarg.

Many thanks Mike...and excellent spot. Now then, I must order that New Orleans disk of yours.

Really pleased you like that Mat.

In a bit, you can try to turn me on to something else.

The folk music helped me. I fought for the mental control to put the lyrics in the forefront with the folk music, and it helped me better appreciate Bach's "St. Matthews Passion". It made me connect with the Passion in a new way.

This could be some fun ...

I had to report this.

I am giving a small dinner part tonight for some music/hifi lovers who are friends of long standing. It will be the first time they hear the Spendors driven by the NAP200, and it will be their first time hearing John Cleary and Marcus Roberts.

I woke up this morning in a great mood, and "Harvest Years" came unbidden into my head. I had to dig it out and play it over coffee.

I am so proud of my tired old brain :-) He let something pass that wasn't to his specifications. It must be love. It is giving me a rush.

I think we'll play "Harvest Years" tonight, with the coffee and brandy ...

I did play "Harvest Years" and it was well received.

I need some help. Listening to folk music got me to thinking about what popular music was like in a given period. I find myself clueless about popular music in the 1700s, just after Munrow leaves off.

Any recommended listening to fix this?

quote:

I did play "Harvest Years" and it was well received.

Excellent - that is good to hear.

Gryphon's first album has a 17th century feel to it - their subsequent albums do not fulfil the promise of their eponymous debut.



However, it is their first elpee that I think worthy of attention to gauge its value I'd recommend listening to The Unquiet Grave - please click here.

"Kemp's Jig" (Trad. arr. Gryphon)
"Sir Gavin Grimbold" (Trad. arr. Gulland)
"Touch And Go" (Harvey/Taylor)
"Three Jolly Butchers" (Trad. arr. Taylor)
"Pastime with Good Company" (Henry VIII arr. Gryphon)
"The Unquiet Grave" (Trad. arr. Gryphon)
"Estampie" (Anon. arr. Gryphon)
"Crossing The Stiles" (Taylor)
"The Astrologer" (Trad. arr. Gryphon)
"Tea Wrecks" (Anon. arr. Gryphon)
"Juniper Suite" (Gryphon)
"The Devil And The Farmer's Wife" (Trad. arr. Gryphon)

Not all the titles are traditional

Gryphon were

Brian Gulland - bassoon, crumhorns, recorders, keyboards, vocals
Richard Harvey - recorders, crumhorns, keyboards, guitar, mandolin
Dave Oberlé - drums, percussion, vocals
Graeme Taylor - guitars, keyboards, recorder, vocals

Shirley Collins recorded The Unquiet Grave on her 1959 album False True Lovers and again on her album with the Incredible String Band The Power of the True Love Knot.

However, the overlooked Gryphon versions has a nice authentic feel to it. According to Wikipedia the song dates from the 1400s, but I'm not sure.

It is, of course, a happy tale of a man mourning by the grave of his true love for "a twelve month and a day". She is not amused as his weeping is keeping her awake. He says he would leave for one kiss and she tells him to go away as her kiss would kill him.

But the Gryphon elpee is not all sad - please click here for The Devil And The Farmer's Wife.

I'm not that good at dating the compositions, but I'd also recommend the work of Irish group Planxty. To this day, I regard Planxty as the finest live band I have ever seen (it is close with HMHB). My recommendation is Cold Blow and the Rainy Night - please click here. Very different from Shirley Collins and Gryphon, but highly enjoyable.

Christy Moore was a member of Planxty and has made lots of solo albums and written some songs in the folk idiom, but with a very modern theme. Please click here for the Ballad Of Ruby Walsh. The lyric is difficult hear on YouTube so here is a transcript

There’s Bethlehem and Cheltenham and Lourdes and Limerick Junction
The trip to Mejagori come up for the extra munction
Good people climb Croagh Patrick with serenity on their faces
But Ruby Walsh he saved me life below at the Galway Races.
Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

They're under starters orders, Ted Walsh is commentating,
Ruby's up on the favourite, she'll take some beating
necks are craned and eyes are trained there's fear upon their faces
There's agony and ecstasy below at the Galway races
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

It's there you'll see gentility and sheep dressed up like mutton
There's double barrelled names with Mulherns on old melodeons
The talk is all of tillage of silage and corn acre
I fancy Tracy Piggott in the saddle in the enclosure
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go

Sir John Mucksavage Smythe is there with Smurfits and O'Reilly's
The owners and the trainers, the stable boys and jockeys
With silk around their arses getting up on rich men's horses
The convention wives and daughters and marriages and divorces.
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

There's Celtic helicopters land bank speculators,
Builders and developers, crocodiles and alligators
Soldiers of destiny their in the fields of frenzy
their mouths wrapped round the Lamb Of God come back for the gravy,
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

Thursday is the ladies day and the women all look smashing
Their lashing on the lipstick Philip Tracy’s all the fashion
You can see the liposuction the botox and ogmanation
Brazilian haircuts colonic irrigation,
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

And every one's out in Salthill for the craic and for the porter
There's bookies making odds on two flies walking up the wall
There's folk and trad there’s disco karaoke and set dances
While some of us who seen better days were looking to take our chances
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.

Their galloping down the back straight, he has her in the canter
A look at her up the jumps be Gad, she's like a ballet dancer
Over the last she hits the front the other one's going to pass her
Winner alright it's up Kildare, follow me up to Carlow
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go.
Hey Ruby hold her back, give her the craic and up she'll go

ATB Rotf

Always surprises me that Christy never seems to get mentioned as a great lyricist.