Best Eroica

Dear Fredrik,

I will send you an e-mail (though I suspect I may have one or two of the discs already). I would write a longer reply but it I'm very tire.


regards, Tam

p.s. You haven't e-mailed me re. the Gilels.

I may be unwittingly gauche and barbaric here, but how does the von Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic Eroica on Duetsche Gramophone (circa 1970-ish) rate with the present assembly?

Cheers, and willing
to take my lumps
cheerfully,
Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
Can you give me an example of a piano recording that displays this effect?

This effect isn´t uncommon. The most exaggerated example, I can recall at the moment, is the recording by Malcolm Hamilton of Das Wohltemperierte Klavier. This is why I - like Fredrik - put my speakers closer to each other than normally recommended. On the other hand some well considered mixing (even if making the sound more "unnatural" from the angle of the live concert audience) may improve the balance in the music. This may be the case both in mono and stereo recordings. An example may be when the harpsichord has got an individual mike in pieces for harpsichord and ensemble (e.g. Bach harpsichord concertos) allowing the harpsichord to be heard clearly.

Regards, Poul

Tam,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Regarding Barenboim, I have to admit that I've yet to hear a recording of his that I like!

A few piano pieces played over the last week.

Schubert: Winterreise - Schreier/Richter Philips

Rachmaninov: concertos 1&2 Ashkenazy/Previn Decca

Chopin: preludes and nocturns - Arrau Philips

Mozart: concertos and sonatas - Uchida/Tate Philips

Bach: 6 Partitas - Jean Louis Steuerman

Beethoven: concerto No.5 – Brendel/Christoph von Dohnányi - Philharmonia

So far I’ve yet to find a piano recording that displays this “common” phenomenon.


Bhazen,

Nothing to be ashamed of, Karajan was a fine conductor, perhaps a little overzealous when it came to recording Beethoven symphonies!

One the whole his mid 70’s cycle was, in my opinion, his best although the 50’s set with the Philharmonia are very good, if you don’t mind a mono recording!

Tam,

I noticed this Thread

I don't use a Naim pre-amp, do the piano recordings you mention show the same effect when played on different systems?

Dear Basil,

I honestly did mean to do this a week or so ago - I'm not normally one for saying I'll do something tomorrow and then leaving it like this!



Actually, one of the nice things, when I finally got round to listening to a number of discs to find some examples, was that it was harder than I expected - by which I mean there are more recordings where I didn't notice it, that I thought. Certainly, my Kempff and Brendel discs (for example) seem free of it.


Annoyingly, I have virtually none of the discs you mention. I do love the Uchida/Tate Mozart concertos and they are by far my favourite cycle (though Barenboim's earlier EMI readings do have something, especially in the earliest concertos, to recommend them). That said, if Brendel/Mackerras got did the rest, this would likely change.



As to Karajan, I am not a fan. I have only heard his early 60s cycle with the Berlin Phil and do not care for it, fining it rather staid and predictable. I am told that the 70s cycle is much better but given I've never really got on too well with any Karajan disc I've heard (be it his Planets or his Mahler 6), I'm in no hurry to try it. Indeed, I already have my next 3 Beethoven cycles in mind (and he doesn't feature): it seems that Jochum's second two cycles, with the LSO and Concertgebouw are now (or will soon be) available again, and I'm also most keen to hear Haitink's recent efforts.


regards, Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Basil:
Tam,

I noticed this Thread

I don't use a Naim pre-amp, do the piano recordings you mention show the same effect when played on different systems?

Dear Basil,

I had seen this thread too. But that is, I think a different effect. Not only since I've observed this on other systems and that it doesn't occur only at low volumes, but also because the imbalances vary with some recordings sending high notes to one side and low to the other.


regards, Tam

quote:

Dear Basil,

I honestly did mean to do this a week or so ago - I'm not normally one for saying I'll do something tomorrow and then leaving it like this!

No problem,

quote:

Annoyingly, I have virtually none of the discs you mention. I do love the Uchida/Tate Mozart concertos and they are by far my favourite cycle

Sods law! Nice to be able to agree on the Uchida/Tate Mozart concertos, or to be exact the Uchida/Tate/ECO Mozart concertos as I feel the English Chamber Orchestra are one of the finest small ensembles.

Karajan! I would urge you to try his Shostakovitch symphony No.10, Schoenberg's Transfigured night, Britten's Variations on a theme of Frank Bridge and Smetana's Vysehrad & Die Moldau from the symphonic poems "Ma Vlast" (but I guess you already knew that!)

Which Planets? The early Decca or the later DG?

I'm not a huge fan of his Mahler either.

quote:

Dear Basil,

I had seen this thread too. But that is, I think a different effect. Not only since I've observed this on other systems and that it doesn't occur only at low volumes, but also because the imbalances vary with some recordings sending high notes to one side and low to the other.

It was a long shot!

Dear Basil,

Quite right, I should not have overlooked the ECO. Interestingly, I have (or rather had) 3 Mozart concerto cycles featuring them. The other two being Perahia and Barenboim. One of the reasons I prefer Uchida's is that their playing for her is by far the finest, which is one of the reasons I firmly believe concertos are better served with both a pianist and conductor.

I will look out for the Karajan recommendations you mention - actually, I have a few of his Strauss discs on my self (that I inherited but haven't got round to yet) and am told he is rather fine there. The Planets I have is the 1981 recording, though in fairness to Karajan, I am not a huge fan of the work to begin with.


regards, Tam

I could go on about the ECO forever!

Personal ECO favourite has to be Holst's Lyric movement, Brook Green Suite, Nocturne, Fugal concerto and St Pauls suite conducted by Imogen Holst on Lyrita.

Not bad for a thread about the "Eroica"

Karajan BPO 1963

Eroica: Somehow I think Erich Kleiber's recording may be most faithful to the music as conceived by Beethoven.

I didn't see any mention of Toscanini - something worth hearing.

But I tend to reach for Furtwangler when I want to hear the 3rd, but with the BPO, not the VPO.

Like Mr. Fiske, I had great difficulty with the idea of Furtwangler. But he's a good step above HvK and Schwarzkopf, who lied about their Nazi party membership, or Bohm. Furt wa snever a party member.

I really couldn't hear what the fuss was about from the 1953 EMI studio recordings. Many of his live recordings, however, are absolutely amazing.

Their are a couple of sets from Music & Arts with wartime 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 or a subset of the same.

In part, I feel like Mr. Fiske - how can a worthwhile human being entertain the Nazi brass? But when I first heard these recordings, the question changed to, 'How could the Nazi brass continue to do evil when they could go to concerts like these?'

Besides, if you listen real closely, you may be able to hear bombs land in Berlin during the concerts.

Regards.

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Barry:
I didn't see any mention of Toscanini - something worth hearing.

Indeed! The 1939 NBC recording - available on Naxos - is a marvel. Closer to the point of self-combustion than anyone would dare come these days!

I'd still take HvK's 1963 though.