Tour de France.

They catch more because they test more. Elite cyclists are some of the most frequently scrutinised athletes on the planet (which I think is a good thing). Cycling gets worse press than other sports because other sports have their heads in the sand, the big-money / high media profile ones especially. It wouldn't do to have the football (for example) gods being revealed as users, would it? The telly people wouldn't like it, and they pay the big bucks.

I don't like it in any case! What annoys me is that altheletes are lionised, while important careers are ignored by politicians and the media, which results in a shortage of the vital people from plumbers to civil engineers!

I think sport should be regulated from without, to be honest, at least when any public money is involved!

Most sports seems fairly rotten at the highest levels from time to time, and it it should be regarded as much more serious than it is. For example London's hosting of the Olympics is going to cost the public rather a lot I suspect, all in the name of a rather tainted activity. In my view it is just as big a folly as erecting the Millenium Dome, considering the nature of what is going to be achieved in the end!

In every case it would better putting the resources towards hospitals and education, where the results do real people good, and not relying on some trickle-down effect, which really has been shown not to work in any case

It would be better to allow schools to retain their sports grounds, than allow for a fortnight of sport on TV, which is what it amounts to for most.

All the best from Fredrik

I think Reginald has a point. (Okay, I'm a racing cyclist and feeling a little hacked off at the moment..)

People in other sports take performance enhancing drugs. There are reportedly 150 professional sportsmen and women (and one very prominent sportswoman) on the same list Ullrich and Basso were on. We won't hear much about them. But because cycling is seen as a 'drug-ridden' sport anyway, and one which has nothing like the huge financial and national interests involved in football or athletics, it takes the heat off others.

Tim

I wish doping of human's was as tightly regulated and policed as it is in race horses! Neither is acceptable, and the damage done by assciation is considerable. I have no idea how common it is, but people at the highest levels in any given sport have something to answer for when they bring disrepute to what should be a noble and pure activity, but which will never be seen as such till the regulation is far more effective and a reasonable deterent.

I quite agree about vested interests and the non-reporting or testing of Scoccer players for example. That is scandalous, but not surprising in a system dominated so entirely by capital. There are places where capital needs its wings clipping a bit in my view.

All the best from Fredrik

Dear Fredrik

All these Tour de France cycles can´t wake me up.
I prefer to let the Bach/Walcha cycle spin.

Zidane in France will be the next round-triper !!!

Sport is the prime medium for advertisers to reach the male demographic. Heaps of money is pumped into it. The big money is too much temptation for the sportsmen and some will cheat.

The easiest way to get rid of drugs in sport is to find a better way for advertisers to reach that demographic. Sportsmen happy to risk their health for millions of dollars will be less tempted when the prizes are just thousands of dollars.

Years ago I used to take a keen interest in the Tour de France and eventhough I am not a cyclist I was impressed with the competitors fitness levels, and stamina especially with the uphill stages. As soon as I realised various riders were taking performance enhancing drugs
the Tour de France's reputation & prestige became greatly diluted.I haven't watched it now for 15 years and have no inclinationto do so in the future unless riders can be proved to be 100% clean.(Some Chance).
I have a keen interest in most sports but when drugs are mentioned I just think "Whats the use". How can any competitor in any sport
stand on a rhostrum to accept a prize knowing
that they have used drugs to gain an unfair advantage.I feel sorry for the clean talented sports people who train extremely hard day in
and day out just to gain mediocrity when they
know muppets in their sport are cheating.
I think sport in general has lost a major
slice of credibility when drugs are found to be involved and sports commentators hark on about
setting examples to youngsters, I suppose the bottom line is " Money Rules ". Shame really!

Best Regards,Trevor.

Dave Mliiar's riding this year but I find it hard to be enthused by him. I love cycling and the Tour but holds little attraction this year. As others have intimated, doping is not just a cycling problem.

quote:

Originally posted by and:
Dave Mliiar's riding this year but I find it hard to be enthused by him. I love cycling and the Tour but holds little attraction this year. As others have intimated, doping is not just a cycling problem.

Doping isn't just a cycling problem, but it is a very big problem in cycling. Events like the TDF are so much down to endurance that there is a lot to be gained by drug cheats.

quote:

Does anyone have any ... interest in this spectacle?

No, I've net met anybody who does - think it is televised on ITV9 or some such channel.

Toby wants riders to be shown to be 100% clean.

Sorry, Toby, it's something to aim for, but it will never be achieved.

Testing always trails behind, developing methods to identify and quantify newly developed molecules. The financial returns make it profitable to develop new drugs.

Who defines "drug", anyway? Is stored blood a drug? I don't think so, but it's banned. Is caffeine a drug (even in a cup of tea)? Caffeine is a stimulant, so yes, it is a drug, but who will ban tea and coffee?

It's a complex problem, and I don't see a complete answer. We just have to keep trying, and the cycling bodies appear to be trying harder than most.

KenM
I understand your viewpoint and believe new performance enhancing drugs are being developed and methods of detection cannot keep pace.As you say where do you draw the line,Steve Redgrave is a diabetic and takes insulin but
you can't ban insulin ,numerous athletes have taken cough medicine unaware that it may have contained a banned substance and have lost any
medals they may have won. Another question one could ask is " How do you define sporting achievement?" The downside of drugs in sport is
that clean participants who do win major medals and have achieved World Records etc,etc,have their achievments clouded in suspicion. What validity is there in sporting achievement when
a sportsman cheats using performance enhancing drugs? I think none whatsoever,in fact it turns me completely off sport.
Regards,Trevor

(Not directed at any of the above posters)

It always amuses me that some people condemn/refuse to watch cycling due to the perceived drug problem, yet will happily follow football/cricket/rugby/crown green bowling, safe in the knowledge that because drugs are not a reported issue in those and other sports, there is no issue, or if there is, its just 'one bad apple'.
On the list of athletes compiled after 'Operacion Puerto' there were approximately 150 names including (allegedly) many footballers. While the cycling authorities took immediate action even on the eve of the sport's major event, knowing the stink it would kick up, FIFA et al have said/done nothing. I wonder why that is?
If you don't watch cycling because you find it boring, fair enough. It just seems to me that (again not directed at any posters here) as soon as the 'drugs in cycling' issue is raised the 'Hypocrite-O-Meter' goes into meltdown.
Floyd Landis to win, btw. Assuming he gets to the start on time each day, of course

Dear Reginald,

I actually think that cycling is great fun. I have worn four bikes out, including several intermediate rebuilds, though I always found watching it on TV quite stressful in the olden days. I was terrified of the potential for pile ups, having been knocked off my bike twice by cars, myself.

I think it is a wonderful activity, and quite see your point about the 'tarring by association,' and the inactivity in other sports over drug abuse. It is very difficult.

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
I actually think that cycling is great fun. I have worn four bikes out..

I didn't think it was possible to have that much fun on a bike, Frederik! What on earth do you do to them

Reg! Riding to work, over about four miles on some rather rough roads for ten years. And that was before the pressure to use cars less! I shall revert to the hurdle within a month, once again! I love it! I have an old Eagle solid framed thing at the moment, which is just too big for me, but it needs another new crank bearing. I think I push on too much for these to be very durable with me! I have had a Raleigh, Elswick, and Dawes before the Eagle, which I got second hand for £15 when the Dawes finally got beyond economic repair! The Eagle is the most easy to ride, as it seems geared just perfect for me. I only really use the top three speeds! I am afraid that on a long ride I am just as happy to get off and push on really steep hills, which there are a few of round here! So I am not really a true cyclist, but only an amateur one...

The feeling of riding home in the summer night, or to work at half-past five in the morning is not easily paralleded! Unfortuntaly car drivers are not their most aware at these times!

Fredrik

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
So I am not really a true cyclist, but only an amateur one...
Fredrik

You sound exactly like a true cyclist to me. Freedom and enjoyment. Thats why I do it, anyway. That and the drugs, of course .

quote:

gain, we are faced with leading riders being caught out abusing their sport and drugs

They haven't been caught. There are allegations against them. Basso, Ullrich et al may turn out to be innocent - just like Lance was! (congrats to Bristol-Myers Squibb.)

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:

quote:

Does anyone have any ... interest in this spectacle?

No, I've net met anybody who does - think it is televised on ITV9 or some such channel.

I do, and the TDF starts with the Saturday in London next year, with the Sunday across Kent. I'll be there, and so will a few others.

I don't care if they take drugs from a sporting point of view, all professional sports seem to involve "cheating" at some level, but I do have concerns for their long term health.

Pro cycling has HUGE following across continental Europe.

Rockdoc makes another good point too.

One of my thoughts about the doping issue is that actually these elite athletes are effectively being abused, being almost forced to take drugs and extreme physiological manipulation without necessarily being informed of the risks, or even always being aware of what they are taking. This effect also trickles down and undoubtedly athletes below the elite level will be abusing drugs without full medical back up or monitoring.

I've seen several patients who have been using veterinary medicines and out of date stock of dubious provenance whilst training.

Bruce

The route isn't confirmed yet, but may well go right past my practice building. Woohoo!

FWIW, the last stage this year will whizz down my street, but I wont be able to see anything, coz the trees are too thick! And I'll be on holiday :-)

I love watching the Tour and catching the mixture of bikes, tactics and magnificant scenery.

I suspect the sport is absolutely saturated with drugs - how could a human do what those guys do without them for three weeks?

I am almost tempted to suggest the law against performance enhancing drugs is removed. What purpose do the laws serve if some sacrifices are made for PR reasons (e.g. Ulrich) and the remainder play out the part of the innocents?

Perhaps a non-professional category could be created, free of drugs. Then again, how long would you give it before the drugs took over?

No point in fretting about drugs though - they are here and until some radical action is taken all I can suggest is to ignore the hype surrounding those singled out as druggies it and enjoy the spectacle.

Peter

Anyone have any idea if/where it is televised (used to watch it years ago when it was on 4 - I suppose it's now on sky at vast cost)?

regards, Tam