Boycott Amazon over paedophile advice guide.
Posted by: JamieL_v2 on 10 November 2010
From BBC news.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11731928 "A self-published guide giving advice to paedophiles that is for sale through online retailer Amazon is stirring up controversy on the internet, with some threatening to boycott the website. The availability of the Pedophile's Guide to Love and Pleasure: a Child-lover's Code of Conduct has led to questions over scrutiny on the site.
Amazon allows authors to submit their own books and shares revenue with them.
Amazon said it did not promote criminal acts, but also avoided censorship.
Before authors are able to sell a work on the site, they are asked to read a set of guidelines, which bans offensive materials.
But Amazon does not specifically state on its website what material it deems offensive, instead saying "probably what you would expect".
Boycott Threat Responding to the criticism, the retailer said in a statement: "Amazon believes it is censorship not to sell certain books simply because we or others believe their message is objectionable.
"Amazon does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts, however, we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions."
The author, listed as Philip R Greaves II, argues that paedophiles are misunderstood and purports to offer advice to help them abide by the law.
Individuals on the micro-blogging website Twitter have asked Amazon to remove the book from its site, while some are threatening to boycott the retailer.
One Amazon user posted a comment on the site saying: "I have seen first hand the harm that people like the author of the book, and potential readers, do to children and to see a book like this on Amazon's 'shelves', so to speak, is very troubling to me."
The title is being sold for the Kindle electronic reader."
I don't wish to seem like a Daily Mail reader, but I certainly will not be buying from them until this title is removed.
Posted on: 10 November 2010 by James L
Interesting.
Normally I'd be quick to pass judgement on such a book but as with any of these controversies, don't believe the hype.
After all it may actually say in the book "don't do it, get help coz you're not normal".
On the face of it though....sounds pretty sick.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by David Scott
quote:
I certainly will not be buying from them until this title is removed
Good news then. There's no Kindle book of that title or by that author on either the British or American sites and the article you linked to and quoted from clearly states that it has been removed.
Interesting that the book claims to help paedophiles 'abide by the law'. Hard to guess how it proposes to do this, but it's possible that James is right and it wouldn't seem quite so bad if we knew what it actually said.
PS. Just found another statement by the author and I have to say it does sound pretty dodgy...
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by Derry
Why not boycott the book rather than the store that sells it?
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by graham55
quote:
Originally posted by Derry:
Why not boycott the book rather than the store that sells it?
Because people like to be seen making gestures?
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by JamieL_v2
quote:
Originally posted by David Scott?:
quote:
I certainly will not be buying from them until this title is removed
Good news then. There's no Kindle book of that title or by that author on either the British or American sites and the article you linked to and quoted from clearly states that it has been removed.
Interesting that the book claims to help paedophiles 'abide by the law'. Hard to guess how it proposes to do this, but it's possible that James is right and it wouldn't seem quite so bad if we knew what it actually said.
PS. Just found another statement by the author and I have to say it does sound pretty dodgy...
The article has been updated during the day, the text I copied at the top of the page is what the article said at 6am GMT today.
In answer Derry's comment, boycotting the book is not a problem, I am not a Pedophile, so do not have any use for the book.
Graham, making a gesture, isn't that what voting is, and thousands have died over the centuries so that many of us can now do that. Would you sell the book if you think it does not reflect badly on you by doing so?
I really didn't think Amazon would continue to sell the I-book, but I am pleased that they have acted quickly to remove something that so many people would find deeply offensive from such a public place.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by David Scott
quote:
The article has been updated during the day, the text I copied at the top of the page is what the article said at 6am GMT today.
Fair enough. You were up early! Or late.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by graham55
quote:
Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
Graham, making a gesture, isn't that what voting is, and thousands have died over the centuries so that many of us can now do that. Would you sell the book if you think it does not reflect badly on you by doing so.
No, voting is part of a democratic process, which results in a winner being decided. A gesture, in such a situation, would be standing with a placard outside the polling station.
I simply don't understand the final part of your question, as there are too many negatives in the sentence!
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by JamieL_v2
quote:
Originally posted by David Scott?:
quote:
The article has been updated during the day, the text I copied at the top of the page is what the article said at 6am GMT today.
Fair enough. You were up early! Or late.
I did do a double take when I read your comment, but then remembered I had cut and pasted the article.
Up early, sleeping next someone who is 8 months pregnant and has a baby sitting on their bladder, toilet trips every hour through the night. Not a restful night and I was not in the sharpest state of mind at the time.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by JamieL_v2
quote:
Originally posted by graham55:
quote:
Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
Graham, making a gesture, isn't that what voting is, and thousands have died over the centuries so that many of us can now do that. Would you sell the book if you think it does not reflect badly on you by doing so.
No, voting is part of a democratic process, which results in a winner being decided. A gesture, in such a situation, would be standing with a placard outside the polling station.
I simply don't understand the final part of your question, as there are too many negatives in the sentence!
"Would you sell the book if you think it does
not reflect badly on you by doing so."
Only one negative as far as I can see, although I did miss off the question mark, so not good grammar.
Withholding funds from a retailer directly affects their ability to trade, so more than a placard gesture.
Personally I think a person can be judged by the actions they make in respect of their beliefs. There are numerous examples on both large and small scales that have had their affects and improved life for others.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by graham55
I'm not a bookseller but, if I were.... Yes, I imagine that I'd sell a book if I thought that it wouldn't reflect badly on me to do so.
(Which seems to be the wrong answer, from your point of view, hence my confusion.)
Anyway, feel free to make whatever gestures you like as regards amazon. I'm out of this one.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by David Scott
quote:
Up early, sleeping next someone who is 8 months pregnant and has a baby sitting on their bladder, toilet trips every hour through the night. Not a restful night and I was not in the sharpest state of mind at the time.
Don't worry - only a couple of years to go before you can get as much sleep as you like.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by David Scott
Graham,
I think what Jamie means is:
If Amazon thinks their reputation won't be affected, they will sell the book.
This being so, people who don't want them to sell the book should make it clear that their reputation will be affected (by boycotting them).
I may be wrong.
Of course, they're not selling the book any more, so it doesn't matter.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by Peter Dinh
Why are people troubled and upset? If you think the book is corrupted and bad, then do not consider it, get it out of your mind, do not let any young kid in your family touch it. But I also think that anyone is free to sell or write anything they want - this is the basic right and this is the basic of democracy.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by Richard S
Nobody has the "right" to be a paedophile; end of story. This practice is immoral, abhorrent and illegal for one very good reason - it exists to prey on vulnerable young people. Therefore normal rules on freedom of expression or identity simply do not apply.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by JamieL_v2
I do agree that the balance between freedom of expression and the needs of those who feel threatened by those expressions can be a difficult balance.
Were the guide being promoted through a social care or rehabilitation network I would have very different views, and I certainly did not want to come across as a book burner.
Personally I feel that Amazon is such a big market place, including thousands of children's items that it is not the place for such a publication, and that they should be more sensitive to their position as a retailer.
I am both pleased by their reaction, and also not surprised by it.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by Peter Dinh
Being a paedophile is against the law, but writing about it is not against the law. Although, I must say that it is very pervert.
Posted on: 11 November 2010 by Mike Hughes
Got to say I find some of the arguments here befuddled. We all have our views on sex offenders and they doubtless cover a range from liberal to extreme right wing. That shouldn't be confused with the subject of the book or the nature of selling product.
The contents of the book are likely to cause offence but withdrawing the book isn't going to make sex offenders go away. What actually moves things on is when there is a discussion. If the book had been written by an academic; funded by academia and peer reviewed by associated professionals from a variety of fields would we feel more comfortable with it being in the public domain? Should we, when such things in themselves are no evidence of motivation?
I find myself asking just how do you find such a book on Amazon! How and why would you do that search and what exactly would your motivation be! Now, there's a can of worms!
Posted on: 12 November 2010 by Phil Barry
I have the deepest sympathy for victims of abuse, especially since most victims are too young to resist, but I am very reluctant to advocate censorship or boycott.
It's pretty easy to find material that advocates death to homosexuals, death to Jews, death to Muslims, death to abortionists ... I have a hard time seeing pedophilia as more evil than these things, and I'm sure I've missed lots of other terrible evils, as well. Why aren't people up in arms about that?
At the same time, if I ran a book store, I'd reject the book. I'd be interested in knowing how the book got added to Amazon's electronic inventory. Normally I'd expect this sort of book to be sold from the author's website.
Phil Barry
Posted on: 13 November 2010 by AL4N
well, i haven't read much about this issue or done any research infact i haven't even talked to anyone on the subject but i'll take it on face value and not use amazon ever again.
Posted on: 13 November 2010 by James L
quote:
well, i haven't read much about this issue or done any research infact i haven't even talked to anyone on the subject but i'll take it on face value and not use amazon ever again.
Not ever?
I assume you are not a big user of Amazon's service.
Your's is a commendable stance but what's the point if you don't let Amazon know?
Posted on: 13 November 2010 by Peter Dinh
quote:
Originally posted by AL4N:
well, i haven't read much about this issue or done any research infact i haven't even talked to anyone on the subject but i'll take it on face value and not use amazon ever again.
Very funny
Posted on: 14 November 2010 by mongo
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Dinh:
quote:
Originally posted by AL4N:
well, i haven't read much about this issue or done any research infact i haven't even talked to anyone on the subject but i'll take it on face value and not use amazon ever again.
Very funny
plus one.
Posted on: 14 November 2010 by AL4N
quote:
Originally posted by James L:
quote:
well, i haven't read much about this issue or done any research infact i haven't even talked to anyone on the subject but i'll take it on face value and not use amazon ever again.
Not ever?
I assume you are not a big user of Amazon's service.
Your's is a commendable stance but what's the point if you don't let Amazon know?
i will email them straight away
Posted on: 14 November 2010 by AL4N
done, i await their reply
Posted on: 15 November 2010 by AL4N
i have a reply
Hello Mr *********,
This book is no longer available for sale.
Ben
Executive Customer Relations
Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk==========================
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