'Speaker upgrade question

I took along my own test CD to so as to compare with a known sound and real organs with long pipes came out very well. Also the ambience of the church were the music was recorded came across very well.

However YMMV

Derek Wright

I also thought the Wilson Benesch Discovery at Bristol sounded good - a scale quite out unexpected from the size of box. Interesting that they're isobarics, like Saras.

But they should be good at about 5500 UKP (including stands). The cheapest speaker on their price list is about 3000 UKP.

Ian

I agree with the Foxy one above

Credos would do the job very well.

I ran a Nait3 with a 63 sig and MS 20's on Heybrook HSB1 stands before I got my Credos. The 63sig sounded pretty damn good with the Nait3 Credo combo as far as I recall (it was a brief period during my major spell of upgradeitis last year).

The beauty of Credos is that they can be driven with anything from a Nait3 right up to a 500.

I'm using mine with 135s at the moment and they certainly don't lack in many areas.

I 'd say they were an excellent 2nd hand buy for £600 if your brother intends to continue on the Naim path.

Best

P.

John

Regarding Credos, they will probably have more bass extension than the Kans, but the bass from Credos (and SBLs) is tight to the point of seeming thin. They also require really finicky room setup.

In any case, definitely try the candidates at home before committing yourself.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Anyone wishing to hear a pair, and if you're in the area, give me a shout - I'll happily sing the praises of these wee babies!

John

A real discovery. Bigger ones at about £1200 even better.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

John

I've had a look but not much in the way of second-hand Credo's at present, but the Royds are worth auditioning new, and their approach to their designs seems very compatible with Naim's, if their marketing info is to be believed.

Cheers, I'll let you know what he ends up with.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

quote:

---

the Doublets have side firing bass ports. This makes them very easy to place. ( Am I really saying that Ive moved them a million times)
Is that true of the new revelations?

---

Yes, but there are three models. Following is
lifted from the the Royd info sheet which I would have scanned and posted had I not spilt coffee on it! However, the Royd room was such fun at the show that I will bash it out manually:

===============
Revelation

A new range of loudspeakers from Royd

the new Royd Revelation Range of loudspeakers is the product of many years of research and development aimed at reproducing natural sound.

when the final piece of the puzzle was solved the resulting sound genuinely came as a revelation. With new levels of sound quality and accuracy these speakers reproduce music and voice closer to natural sound than has previously been achieved over the last 30 years.

The bass units are hand built in our Telford factory and feature multi-layer laminated cones. The treble units have been chosen for lack of phase distortion, hence their ability to be used with first-order crossovers.

All the loudspeakers may be bi-wired or bi-amped.

This new Royd technology embodies the following advantages even at the quietest of listening levels.

1. Wide frequency response
2. Ease of listening and enhanced involvement
3. Accurate and extended low frequency performance with much lower phase distortion and no time delay
4. Very low bass notes from small enclosures
5. More natural sound

All models will be available in veneered finishes including maple and cherry.

Specification
All models have an in room frequency response of 22hz to 20khz.

Model R.R.1.
R.R.1 is a compact floor standing enclosure just 642mm high, 192mm wide and 154mm front to back. It has a nominal impedance of 8 ohms, a crossover frequency of 5khz and may be used comfortably with amplifiers delivering 40 to 100 watts.

Model R.R.2
R.R.2 is a floor standing loudspeaker some 865mm high, 192mm wide and 178mm front to back. It has a nominal impedance of 6 ohms, a crossover frequency of 4.5khz and may be used comfortably with amplifiers delivering 30 to 120 watts.

Model R.R.3
R.R.3 is a stand mounted compact loudspeaker just 328mm high 190mm wide and 192mm front to back. It has a nominal impedance of 8 ohms, a crossover frequency of 4.5khz and may be used comfortably with amplifiers delivering 40 to 100 watts.

===============

Prices:
RR1: £799
RR2: £1199
RR3 with stands: £1349
RR3 (no stands): £1099

To answer your question, RR1 and RR2 have side ports, which can be "inside" or "outside" facing. RR3 ports are on the front baffle. At the show they were positioned about 300mm off the wall, but the point was made that this was to alleviate a room quirk, and they are designed to work very close to the wall.

The RR1s have to be experienced to be believed. Although floor-standing, the F/B measurement must be only about 75mm at the top, as the front panel slopes.

The RR2s are definitely bigger both sonically & visually, but still pretty compact. They are very effortless but very rhythmic.

I would think that it will be a while before they are generally available, as the grilles have yet to be finalised, and they want them to work better with the grilles on rather than off.

I'm a fan!

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

These speakers are worth seeking out for a demo - you won't be disappointed. FWIW, I believe the Petite/Gravitas forms the top of the Neat line, and other models include the Elites that Sir Vuk uses. I never had a chance to hear the Elite's, but I can vouch for the Petite's being pretty special beasties indeed...

John

John

As highlighted by John C, my brother contacted Signals Hi-Fi, to investigate the Royd Doublets that were on offer.

He has been sent, for home trial, a pair of Doublets, and a pair of 'Something Solid' stands, designed specifically for the speakers, that apparently are better than using the supplied bases.

Initially he was having trouble with placement, and wasn't geting the speed and rythm that he wanted from them, although the things they were doing well was obvious, particularly a very sweet treble end. In order to determine whether we had an amplifier problem (i.e. Nait3 not powerful / good enough) we placed them in the car and headed for my house and a 112/150.

First impressions after removing my Kans, and placing the doublets in there place were very good, much more even than at my brothers, and I know realise just how much low frequency stuff is missing from Kans - I was quite stunned how low the doublets go, but without booming or uneven bass, very impressive. They can go on my (short) list of ported speakers that work . All of the listening was done with the standard base, not the Something Solid stand, since we'd found that to make things worse at my brothers house.

Anyway after an afternoon of thoroughly enjoying them, we set back to his house to try and investigate further.

To cut a long story short, placing the speakers in a different location from the ones that my brother had tried made a massive difference, to the point where we were now both happy.

The next point was to try the stands. The stand consists of a spiked H frame at the bottom, with a tall upright section that reaches about half way up the rear of the speaker. The Doublet rests on two spikes at the front, and two rubber / plastic (not sure) pads behind the speaker.

Placing the speaker on these stands immediately brought about an improvement in bass and treble, but something was worse in the upper bass, where some detail was being lost (my brothers' original criticism of the stands was just this effect). Detail about how a bass guitar, for example, was being played was lost, and upset the timing information being portrayed.

Having looked at the stands earlier in the day, I'd thought that they were definitely a good idea in principle, being light, yet very rigid, and offering support to the tall speaker at a higer point than normal to aid stability but that the pads where the rear of the speaker rested were a flawed concept. Firstly I'd rather see a spike or cone there to reduce contact area, and that positioning the speaker slightly skewed on the stand (an easy thing to do, they're bloody heavy!) means that weight distribution could be uneven.

As an experiment we placed a single Partington Topper cone in the middle rear of the speaker, so that it now contacts the stand at three points only, guaranteeing stability and weight distribution. To say that this seemingly minor change was a revelation would be an understatement. They sounded fantastically tight, even, and I'm sorely tempted to replace my Kans with a pair, which as Jeremy (Sproggle) says is something a Kan user does not say lightly! The upper bass / timing problem disappeared, as did the speaker boxes themselves.

I don't know if anyone else has heard of these stands, they retail for 60-70 ukp normally, but the dealer has offered them to my brother for an exra tenner I think they're worth it at either price.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, Royd have another very happy customer.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

The name.. the (n)Avoids

John

I think that the new Royd line-up is positioned to compete directly with Neat who seem to have infiltrated the Naim dealer network and superceded Royd. .Discuss.

[This message was edited by John C on MONDAY 19 March 2001 at 00:43.]]

[This message was edited by John C on MONDAY 19 March 2001 at 09:32.]

quote:

---

Make sure those ports are facing inwards!

---

We've got them that way round now, although at my house we only tried them ports outwards, since my system sits between the speakers and I thought it would be better this way around (?)

The location my brother now has them in is either side of the opening joining his lounge / dining area, ports inwards, and speakers slightly toed-in, in an attempt to avoid some reflections from a fireplace on one side. It works superbly.

One of the reasons he'd not tried them in this location was that previous 'speakers had always exhibited a channel imbalance as a result of these reflections.

quote:

---

Think they would work on springy carpeted wooden floor?

---

I think they'd work fine, particularly if you could drive cross-head screws in to support them. My Kan stands are on a similar arrangement on a bouncy wood floor and they are very rigid.

I'm still finding the difference the three point mounting made quite difficult to believe, but it worked, something we both agreed on within seconds of playing and after some considerable listening later on.

These speakers do exhibit some characteristics I've not encountered before, particularly a strange effect where we had a less than ideal bass end (boomy / resonant) and moving the speakers further from the wall made things worse. Closer to the wall they exhibited a subjectively flat bass down to very low frequencies, without any peakiness.

It makes me realise why I've stuck with Kans for so long, they're fairly simple to site, find a solid wall, get the speaker as close as possible to it, rigidly mounted, sit back and enjoy!

Ian,

Whilst I wouldn't suggest a weekend of fiddling clasifies me as an expert, if you let us all know where your doublets are sited at present, how close to a wall they are etc we may be able to offer some clues. Anameic is definitely not how I'd describe them!

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

cheers

Nigel

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

quote:

---

If he likes Kans, but want's more bass, why not a pair of Saras?

---

Two reasons - there very old and servicing could be an issue, if necessary, but primarily because I don't think a Nait is up to driving them.

Andy.

P.S. He emailed me to say he went to bed at 2am this morning, I guess that must be a success? I'm surprised the neighbours weren't battering at the door.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

"I'm surprised the neighbours weren't battering at the door"

.....Depends if he could hear them banging on the door

Regards

Chris

Could you try this, even temporarily, to see if it would work (you may have to toe them in as well)?

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

John

[This message was edited by Andrew L. Weekes on WEDNESDAY 21 March 2001 at 17:01.]