Robert Schumann

The essential (and immediately enjoyable) pieces are:

Carnaval - Uchida is absolute poetry; so is the Rubinstein 1962 recording (in The Rubinstein Collection nr 52 you get the Fantasiestucke, too).

Fantasy in C op 17 - Pollini's seventies recording (DG Originals)

Kreisleriana - definitely the Horowitz 80's recording (it's on DG Masters, or, equally cheap on the Great Pianists of the 20 th C double disc, which means you get a great Humoreske to boot) You can get another Kreisleriana + Humoreske if you opt for Lupu on Decca, but it doesn't have Horowitz' fleetness.

Davidsbundlertanze - Berezovsky on Warner

Symphonische Etuden - Kissin in Carnegie Hall

Bunte Blatter - Volodos in Carnegie Hall

Intriguing remark, about Uchida playing Shostakovich: she's never recorded any Russian repertoire, did she? Also, most of the Preludes & Fuges are anti-romantic, I'd say, whereas Uchida is a very very romantic artist. So, yes, maybe she'd give a very interesting interpretation - but Naim records would go broke, surely.

Herm

David

I guess you've got a point there. We need to address the moderators about this Uchida project.

And let us know, David, what kind of Schumann catch you take home. (And what it sounds like.)

Herm

I have heard snippets of the Volodos disc before and have been meaning to get this. Herm, what is the rest of this disc like?

David

Good to hear from you. I don't ever remember being captivated by Schumann's symphonies - are they worth investigating?

David

for the Volodos disc it would help if you really like Rachmaninov and Scriabin, too. The program, obviously, is a live program, with a bunch of short appetizers etc. There's three Rachmaninov pieces, and Volodos is really into this composer. There's a couple of mini-pieces by Scriabin and his great sonata nr 10 - and that's rather wild music. (We're talking twelve minutes, though.) After that comes the Schumann, which is a long piece, half a disc, and it's beautiful. I play it every time, picking up a little Rachmaninov & Scriabin along the way, saving the Scriabin Ten for special occasions.

However, I would recommend you first to get the Horowitz Kreisleriana on 'Great Pianists of the 20th Century'. You get a lot of Schumann for your buck there, and this is a central piece in the Schumann oeuvre, just like the Carnaval and the Davidsbundlertanze.

Herm

Hi David,

any luck yet?

Rummaging through my LP's I discovered there's a Pollini recording with the Schumann Fantasy Op 17 on one side and the First Sonata (op 11) on the other. It's on a DG CD, too, and it's a combo to die for.

In case you find this disc, get it, and you've got major territory covered (as with the Horowitz double disc).

And this reminds me: there's a lot of Ashkenazy Schumann recordings out, but alas they're no good.

Herm

Tracking down some of these discs has been slightly harder than expected.

I've bought the Volodos disc, Horowitz and Richter discs. Couldn't track doen the Uchida.

However, I got sidelined last night by the Furtwangler 1951 Salzburg Bruckner 5 which took precedence.

I had a quick listen to the Liszt and Scriabin Sonata on the Volodos, which bodes well.

But to be honest, one of the reason that I wanted recommendations for the really essential discs, is that Schumann's never jumped out as something that I've really enjoyed, so I'm hoping that these can convince me otherwise. Will report back soon....

David

I can't believe they retired the Uchida Carnaval that fast!

Bruckner 5

I understand you want to familiarize yourself with that one first. My B 5 memory is with the Concertgebouworkest in the mid-eighties. Eugen Jochum conducting. (The RCO used to love this man.) They took it on the road afterwards to Japan, and he said to the orchestra, every time, "we're going to do it slower."

Somehow Jochum knew how to combine the metaphysical / sublime stuff with a light Schubert touch in his Bruckners.

I can't believe, however, Schumann has never made much of an impression on you. He's one of those composers that either has given us a new form of expression, or (and this may be the same) has taught us new modes of feeling.

So let us know how the Schumanns and the Furtwangler fare.

Herm

Also, my recent forays into Naxos historical releases include quite intiguing and different approaches to Kinderszenen by Artur Schnabel and Benno Moisewitsch.

This is supposed to be a thread about Schumann, so I'll keep this short. Basically, I already have the 1942 Furtwangler Bruckner 5 (as well as about 5 or 6 others), but going on one listen I thought the 1951 to be even finer both in performance and recording. The disc was recently deleted, and having tracked down a copy, I found it to be damaged, so I was rather pleased to come across another copy.

My additional Hutter rack arrives for the CDSII transport today, so should get a good listen to the other discs tonight.

David

Only when I read the booklet did I see the Eroica are a period-instrument quartet. You wouldn't notice when you're listening.

Schumann wrote three string quartets, and he wrote them in a hurry. It took him less than three summer months. Usually they have been pegged as a pianist's string quartets, and true, sometimes there's not a lot of long-note singing in the strings.

Still they're wonderful works; better than the four symphonies. Or, alternatively, as good as the even numbered symphonies (i.e. the good ones).

The Eroica Quartet is different from other ensembles in that they approach these scores from period sources - bowing practices etc. Yet I don't hear the nasal kind of playing that spoils the Haydn string quartets as played by the Mosaiques Qt. Maybe they don't boogie as hard as the Hagen Qt do in the Third Quartet's Scherzo middle section, but how can you blame 'em? No one boogies as hard as Monica Hagen, the hottest viola player on the planet.

Still this is a great recording. It's the first I know of to get all three quartets on one disc (at 78:50 minutes), and the level of thinking and playing is very high.

Schumann's first quartet, possibly the hardest to perform, with horrifyingly exposed viola and cello solos in the finale, and impossible accompanying figures in the beautiful adagio (a sister mvt to the slow mvts in the piano sonatas: brief, lyrical and pensive) is the best in the set. I have never heard it better.

I wondered whether I should post this on my old 'where did the great string quartets go" thread or on David's "Schumann," then I noticed it doesn't have to be solo piano musicon David's thread, necessarily.

As the Eroica booklet suggests, too: Schumann is a wonderful composer. There's no genre he's totally best in: Brahms and Beethovenwere better symphonists, his chamber music wasn't the best ever, even his solo piano pieces were eclipsed by Chopin's.

But no one can out-Schumann Schumann. There's this unique sensibility you catch inklings of in Mozart's late piano concertos and there's Schumann echoes in Tchaikovksy and Prokofiev. But you need to go to the source first.

Boy, I guess I really like Schumann.

Herm

Of the Horowitz disc, Kinderszenen is the more immediately appealing. I think Kreisleriana needs a bit more familiarisation. Horowitz playing reminds me of Stephen Kovacevich.

The Volodos disc is also very good - he has superb control and a wonderfully 'big'/warm tone. The Schumann and the Liszt were the highlights of this disc for me. I will look out for the Horowitz Scriabin Sonata No 10 which Gramophone reckons to be good.

The Richter disc is outstanding. The mono recording is very good, and the performances range from very clear and almost disarmingly simple phrasing, to astounding virtuoso passages - the music always seems to come first.

Will investigate a few more of these recommendations. I'll have a look out for the Uchida and Pollini discs.

Anyone want to try and summarise how Schumann developed as a composer over the years?

David

I'm glad you like what you've heard to far.

An interesting thing about Arcadi Volodos is, he started wanting to be a singer, and very late into his training he switched to the piano. And now he's a top musician. I've seen him twice, and he has this way of leaning back from the keyboard - indeed the entire grand - as if he's playing from the lungs.

I actually saw him doing Kreisleriana - and it was not so good. Kreisleriana is a little different perhaps, because it's Schumann's attempt to grapple with Bach counterpoint. So perhaps it's a little less schwärmerisch.

I once saw / heard a Ashkenazy performance of the Kreisleriana which was absolutely right: it was like black and purple fumes coming from the grand. It's unbelievably powerful music. [However: Ashkenazy's recording of the K. is not good.]

Characterizing Schumann's development is real tough. Perhaps soemone else can? You know he went mad. And people used to say his work went downhill pretty fast after he got the girl. (And the girl played way better piano. Of this celeb couple Clara was the more famous one.) Longing is beter than fulfillment etc. Typical 19th C spin.

True nothing beats the early piano stuff, but the String Quartets I wrote about are middle Schumann. (Also I firmly believe that almost everything a creative person creates has been with him from the beginning: you just need time to execute the idea.)

However, there's this devastatingly witty comment that Schumann started as a genius and ended up a talent. Nice guys, these Romantics.

If you want to continue your next items would be the Davidsbundlertänze (Berezovsky or Pollini) and the Fantasie op 17 (Pollini, period).

Bye now

Herm

[This message was edited by herm on SUNDAY 17 February 2002 at 18:14.]

I reread the section on Schumann in Schonberg's, Life of the Great Composers, so I got an overview of the biography stuff. It basically said that he was little understood or played in his own lifetime. Re: his comparative fame, there is one story I enjoyed about a Russian nobleman speaking to Clara and then turning to Schumann and asking whether he was musical as well. Sounds like it put him in a bad mood for his entire trip to St Petersburg.

David

"So you're Mr Schumann. Do you play an instrument, too?"

as u probably know, i am a richter fan. so will be looking out for this disc. can u provide more details, cd# etc.. where did u get it? i will be in tower records, picadilly circus ldn soon.

enjoy

ken
ps: i too do not have any schumann - overall -- a bit "green" on classical, though my collection is growing worryingly rapidly...

regards

Herman

quote:

---

Originally posted by herm:
_well, Ken, go back to the top of this thread and get thyself some Schumann!_

regards

Herman

---

straight away sir...

enjoy

ken

The disc is on the DG Centenary Collection (also mentions DGG Debut on the back)

It includes March in G minor op76, Waldzenen, Fantasiestucke, Novellette in Fmajor No1, Toccata in C op7 and Abegg Variations. The recordings come from between 1956 and 1962.

I got it from HMV Oxford Circus for £10.99

David

[This message was edited by David Hobbs-Mallyon on THURSDAY 28 February 2002 at 09:22.]

I got it from HMV Oxford Circus for £10.99

david, many thanks. this oen will definitely be in my shopping basket, along with a few other suggestions i have picked up here...

enjoy

ken