The odd wine thread
Posted by: Alexander on 12 November 2007
So let's discuss which Clos Vougeot owner made the biggest mess of his little row of vines this year.
... or maybe not
Last summer I drank an old Ramisco and it was very fine.
Ramisco is a rare grape that grows only on the sandy coastline of Colares in Portugal.
It's unusual in many ways. It grows on the ground. It's so tannic it takes forever to ripen.
It's not grafted on american roots because phyloxera doesn't thrive there.
I heard once that there are vines there of 150 years old. If that's the case I wonder if they still grow grapes, given that after 75 years vines hardly wear any grapes at all.
I kept the bottle.
... or maybe not
Last summer I drank an old Ramisco and it was very fine.
Ramisco is a rare grape that grows only on the sandy coastline of Colares in Portugal.
It's unusual in many ways. It grows on the ground. It's so tannic it takes forever to ripen.
It's not grafted on american roots because phyloxera doesn't thrive there.
I heard once that there are vines there of 150 years old. If that's the case I wonder if they still grow grapes, given that after 75 years vines hardly wear any grapes at all.
I kept the bottle.
Posted on: 22 November 2007 by The Fat Cat
Hi,
maybe you can call me a wine geek.
All started 8-9 years ago when my FIL (father in law) introduced me to the real wine world. Before that time wine was nothing special to me. I liked to drink some cheap sweet white wines once in a while. But this has changed considerably.
A real "sniffer & palate-opener" was a Chateau Palmer 1991, a present from my FIL opened on Xmas eve 2000. Unbelieveable! After the wine was poured in a decanter there was this wonderful bouquet all over the room, not for seconds, not for minutes rather then 1.5 hours (by that time the bottle was empty). On the palate this wine was smooth and fruity, with soft tannins accompained with hints of chocolate, vanilla and peppermint.
Since that day I got very fond of good wine. Red a lot of wine books, started to take notes of nearly every wine I drink, and began to build up my own cellar.
Was lucky that I had the chance to taste some of the high-end names like Ch. Lafite-Rothschild, Ch. Latour, Ch. Cheval Blanc (just to name a few - however, Petrus and DRC is still missing) without even paying for it. To be honest: a lot of these utterly expensive wines taste not significantly better than a 15$ wine bought from Kroger's. But once in a while you really have a gem in your glass.
The best tasting experiences this year have been so far:
- Riojanas, Vina Albina, Gran Reserva (1978, Rioja)
- Beringer Merlot Reserve, Howell Mountains (1997, Napa Valley)
- La Mission Haut-Brion (1992, Pessac-L.; generally 1992 was a bad year for Bordeaux but this bottle rocked)
and most recently
-La Cabanne (1998, Pomerol)
Hopefully there is more to come (the Thanks-Giving weekend is far from over and Xmas is knockin' on the door - right now I have a La Mauraine (1999, Puisseguin-St.Emilion) in the glass).
The best wine dining experience this year however was in Brittany: a lobster in cream sauce and a Muscadet sur Lie from 1996. Mouthwatering. Now I am getting hungry, need to go to the fridge ...
miow,
the fat (and squiffy) cat
maybe you can call me a wine geek.
All started 8-9 years ago when my FIL (father in law) introduced me to the real wine world. Before that time wine was nothing special to me. I liked to drink some cheap sweet white wines once in a while. But this has changed considerably.
A real "sniffer & palate-opener" was a Chateau Palmer 1991, a present from my FIL opened on Xmas eve 2000. Unbelieveable! After the wine was poured in a decanter there was this wonderful bouquet all over the room, not for seconds, not for minutes rather then 1.5 hours (by that time the bottle was empty). On the palate this wine was smooth and fruity, with soft tannins accompained with hints of chocolate, vanilla and peppermint.
Since that day I got very fond of good wine. Red a lot of wine books, started to take notes of nearly every wine I drink, and began to build up my own cellar.
Was lucky that I had the chance to taste some of the high-end names like Ch. Lafite-Rothschild, Ch. Latour, Ch. Cheval Blanc (just to name a few - however, Petrus and DRC is still missing) without even paying for it. To be honest: a lot of these utterly expensive wines taste not significantly better than a 15$ wine bought from Kroger's. But once in a while you really have a gem in your glass.
The best tasting experiences this year have been so far:
- Riojanas, Vina Albina, Gran Reserva (1978, Rioja)
- Beringer Merlot Reserve, Howell Mountains (1997, Napa Valley)
- La Mission Haut-Brion (1992, Pessac-L.; generally 1992 was a bad year for Bordeaux but this bottle rocked)
and most recently
-La Cabanne (1998, Pomerol)
Hopefully there is more to come (the Thanks-Giving weekend is far from over and Xmas is knockin' on the door - right now I have a La Mauraine (1999, Puisseguin-St.Emilion) in the glass).
The best wine dining experience this year however was in Brittany: a lobster in cream sauce and a Muscadet sur Lie from 1996. Mouthwatering. Now I am getting hungry, need to go to the fridge ...
miow,
the fat (and squiffy) cat
Posted on: 25 November 2007 by Alexander
Hello,
With me it's also a 'father in law' thing coincidentally, and I've had my free sample of expensive wines as well - from the times they weren't that expensive yet.
To the extent that at first I thought it's normal for wine that it easily ages for 30 years. That was wrong.
Not fat and squiffy though, and I'm only just starting with notes.
I drank an Haut Brion 1974 last year. 1974 was a bad year, but this one held its own nicely. It's not the only bordeaux that made good wine.
I drank a good Muscadet 1996 from La Louvetrie not that long ago. They have ageing in mind for some of their wine (which experts think is a bad idea). Still waiting for an opportunity to acquire some of their specials.
Cheers,Alexander
quote:Originally posted by The Fat Cat:
All started 8-9 years ago when my FIL (father in law) introduced me to the real wine world. Before that time wine was nothing special to me. I liked to drink some cheap sweet white wines once in a while. But this has changed considerably...
With me it's also a 'father in law' thing coincidentally, and I've had my free sample of expensive wines as well - from the times they weren't that expensive yet.
To the extent that at first I thought it's normal for wine that it easily ages for 30 years. That was wrong.
Not fat and squiffy though, and I'm only just starting with notes.
quote:
- La Mission Haut-Brion (1992, Pessac-L.; generally 1992 was a bad year for Bordeaux but this bottle rocked)
I drank an Haut Brion 1974 last year. 1974 was a bad year, but this one held its own nicely. It's not the only bordeaux that made good wine.
.quote:
The best wine dining experience this year however was in Brittany: a lobster in cream sauce and a Muscadet sur Lie from 1996.
I drank a good Muscadet 1996 from La Louvetrie not that long ago. They have ageing in mind for some of their wine (which experts think is a bad idea). Still waiting for an opportunity to acquire some of their specials.
Cheers,Alexander
Posted on: 25 November 2007 by Alexander
Vin Jaune(yellow wine) is from the Jura and made from late harvest Savagnin Blanc.
The taste is a bit like a extra dry and nutty sherry, but it has higher acidity and no added alcohol(14%).
Don't serve it chilled or the acidity will dominate.
It's matured in wooden barrels that are not filled completely, which would cause the wine to turn into vinegar,
if it weren't for the protective thin oily layer that the yeasts create on top of the wine.
During those six years the volume reduces to a bit over 60% of the original volume(let's assume it's 62%),
and the volume loss is not compensated by topping up the barrels (ouillage).
So the airpocket above the wine grows, but the yeast curtain and the fact that care is taken that the air is not refreshed limits the amount of oxidation.
Vin Jaune comes in a bottle of 62cl called a "Clavelin"(not to be confused with the slightly larger clavecin)
I bought two bottles of Chateau Chalon on a trip to Paris, for about 40 euros each - might have been a bit less.
It's a normal price for this bottle - though not normal for Paris.
Below, the object of our desire, with the obligatory newspaper for proof.
The taste is a bit like a extra dry and nutty sherry, but it has higher acidity and no added alcohol(14%).
Don't serve it chilled or the acidity will dominate.
It's matured in wooden barrels that are not filled completely, which would cause the wine to turn into vinegar,
if it weren't for the protective thin oily layer that the yeasts create on top of the wine.
During those six years the volume reduces to a bit over 60% of the original volume(let's assume it's 62%),
and the volume loss is not compensated by topping up the barrels (ouillage).
So the airpocket above the wine grows, but the yeast curtain and the fact that care is taken that the air is not refreshed limits the amount of oxidation.
Vin Jaune comes in a bottle of 62cl called a "Clavelin"(not to be confused with the slightly larger clavecin)
I bought two bottles of Chateau Chalon on a trip to Paris, for about 40 euros each - might have been a bit less.
It's a normal price for this bottle - though not normal for Paris.
Below, the object of our desire, with the obligatory newspaper for proof.
Posted on: 02 December 2007 by warwick
Aged muscadet does seem odd. Mind you I have heard of people sometimes seeking out aged sancerre. Must be the relatively high acidity that preserves them.
Interesting comments on Gewurztraminer and Savagnin Rose. Gewurztraminer is of course supposed to trace it's origin back to the Italian traminer grape.
Of more pertinent concern is the fact that Sainsbury's are running a 25% off 6 bottles (excluding fortified) until Tuesday. Of particular interest is Vergelegen Sauvignon blanc from South Africa. It's usually excellent. I'd rate at least 17 out of 20 on the scale sometimes used to rate wine, e.g. by the now seemingly out of favour Malcolm Gluck. Also very good are the Valivieso reserve cabernet sauvignon and Sainsbury's gruner veltliner.
I've also just discovered over on wine pages forum that Thresher again running their 40% off voucher coupon. But please be aware that their single bottle prices are inflated, typically by one pound per bottle. For instance the Concho Toro Casilero diablo range is (from memory) priced at 6.99 per bottle when it usually sells for 5.50-5.99 in supermarkets.
Interesting comments on Gewurztraminer and Savagnin Rose. Gewurztraminer is of course supposed to trace it's origin back to the Italian traminer grape.
Of more pertinent concern is the fact that Sainsbury's are running a 25% off 6 bottles (excluding fortified) until Tuesday. Of particular interest is Vergelegen Sauvignon blanc from South Africa. It's usually excellent. I'd rate at least 17 out of 20 on the scale sometimes used to rate wine, e.g. by the now seemingly out of favour Malcolm Gluck. Also very good are the Valivieso reserve cabernet sauvignon and Sainsbury's gruner veltliner.
I've also just discovered over on wine pages forum that Thresher again running their 40% off voucher coupon. But please be aware that their single bottle prices are inflated, typically by one pound per bottle. For instance the Concho Toro Casilero diablo range is (from memory) priced at 6.99 per bottle when it usually sells for 5.50-5.99 in supermarkets.
Posted on: 05 December 2007 by Alexander
I've drunk very fine 20 year old muscadet and I know it's possible, but it remains an exception. There's also acquired taste. I like what old wine can do and have a bit of difficulty with 'lush' tastes. Drank a Nugan Estate Shiraz last week and wondered what I did wrong.
"My best memories of white wines are 70 year old Sauternes and Vouvray. Sweet wines in origin, but nothing remains of that at that age.
I just bought 6 bottles of Chateau la Mouline 1995(Moulis, Medoc). They're still young and need to ripen a few more years. And 6 bottles of Reverdi 1998(Listrac) which is getting there. Then some bottles from er, some prince from Sicily.
Found out that Barolo can really resemble Burgundy. Interesting...
"My best memories of white wines are 70 year old Sauternes and Vouvray. Sweet wines in origin, but nothing remains of that at that age.
I just bought 6 bottles of Chateau la Mouline 1995(Moulis, Medoc). They're still young and need to ripen a few more years. And 6 bottles of Reverdi 1998(Listrac) which is getting there. Then some bottles from er, some prince from Sicily.
Found out that Barolo can really resemble Burgundy. Interesting...
Posted on: 09 December 2007 by rodwsmith
quote:now seemingly out of favour Malcolm Gluck.
Malcolm was alway opinionated to say the least, but not appears to have turned into the dictionary definition of a curmudgeon. He has managed to upset pretty much everyone in the UK wine trade, and some say he has 'issues' with alcohol. A shame - I used to like his wit and devil-may-care attitude, but no-one will work with him now - from editors to tasting assistants.
Interesting thread... I've been away from the UK for 8 months now so am getting out of touch although I know from my ex-colleagues that the market is tougher than ever. This creates bargain prices for conusmers - one bottle in three of all wine sold in the UK is now via Tescos (and they are ultra-keen for all their suppliers to know it) - but the downside is that it limits choice massively. Like Alexander, I am a huge fan of Chateau Chalon, but you are unlikely to see it on a UK shelf these days (not that it was ever an easy find). Support your local independent wine merchant because they will cease to exist otherwise. They are usually a good source of expertise, and the kind of buying power (relationships, friendships, respect) that supermarkets will never have again.
My new job - selling the world's best wines to the world's richest customers (super-yacht owners) - in the Mediterranean during the summer, and the Caribbean during the winter sounds like a dream job. And do you know what? It is!! I have managed to write tasting notes for all the 'big' names since April. I led a tasting onboard for the owner of one yacht that started with Cristal, finished with Yquem and passed by Leflaive, DRC, Mouton Rothschild, Petrus and Gaja in between. Obviously overkill, but something of an event for me...
The only downside is that some of the charterers and owners of these boats (up to $600k per week!) don't really know or care what they are drinking as long as it's expensive enough. It's not a nice thought that some of what I have supplied has been drunk by some (usually Russian) 'entrepreneur' at three in the morning with two kinds of coke and a prostitute on each arm - but someone has to sell it to them! That's why the most expensive is not automatically - and quite often not at all - the best.
Oh well, this isn't getting the swimming done...
Cheers
Rod
Posted on: 09 December 2007 by Malky
quote:Malcolm was alway opinionated to say the least, but not appears to have turned into the dictionary definition of a curmudgeon. He has managed to upset pretty much everyone in the UK wine trade, and some say he has 'issues' with alcohol. A shame - I used to like his wit and devil-may-care attitude, but no-one will work with him now - from editors to tasting assistants.
Shame, I did notice him last week doing a column for the Mail On Sunday (speaks volumes I 'spose). I used to enjoy the Observer's Tim Atkins sarky swipes at him.