let's talk about cables: Naim amplification must use Naim cable?

Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 100 pounds.

My experience is that nothing works better with Naim gear than Naim cables and cords.


Regards


NB

Hi.
I use shotgunned Chord Odyssey 4 speaker cable a Chord Anthem for the CD and Sonic Link mains leads-which I felt were all better than standard.

Cheers
Trevor.

Please see my related reply today... http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=5791907696 ... also, I use TG Audio SLVR power cords... these after-market wires simply, in my opinion, reveal more of the music...

Tom

I spent many months toying with Chord, Nordost and the rest. Each time I thought - hang on I'll just try the NAC A5 back in to see out of interest, same with interconnects - guess what - each time I thought BLOODY HELL that’s how it should sound and went back to the standard - something may sound "improved" but every time I've waited a few weeks - gone back to the Naim stuff and the magic comes back.
Martin
Now all standard mains, interconnect and speaker cable (and its cheap as well)

Sorry Martin, I can't agree. From what I've heard, Naim makes the best audio equipment out there. But, they can't do everything. There are many brilliant folks trying to optimize music reproduction at the “connection” level. And, some have succeeded in coming up with better wire than Naim. That’s reasonable. Have a few more listens, okay?...

Tom

[This message was edited by tre2fly on WEDNESDAY 25 February 2004 at 00:50.]

I had my epiphany on cables with Naim.
I understood Naim power amps are sensitive to the load and impedance and all, but I wasn't expecting Naim preamp also needed a standard issue cable to sound its best with non-Naim amplifiers.

the difference was not the matter of subtle variations. Other cords sounded so bad that only deaf would not notice!

I still use other cables for speakers leads and mains for amps but the rest is now replaced with standard Naim recommended cables.

Now between CDX2 and non Naim preamp, my regular ICs sounded the best over Chord.
Go figure.

tre2fly and kuma
This is such a complex issue and I guess there is no definitive answer.
Regards
Martin

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin D:
tre2fly and kuma
This is such a complex issue and I guess there is no definitive answer.
Regards
Martin

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Hi Martin,

Yep. You're right. I'd think that even within Naim source components, there are variance and I'd think no two cables would work the same.

For instance, if you use CDS3 instead of CDX2 or CD5, something else might work better than Chord or 252 vs. 282 vs. 552 and so on.

Then add the speaker variances. When you use non Naim speakers, maybe more room to experiment with different leads.

But for me, no more 10K cables. Done.

A useful 'rule of thumb' approach to cable selection might be as follows -

1. If you have all Naim electronics driving Naim speakers you probably wont be able to improve on the standard Naim ICs and NACA5, except under rare and exceptional circumstances (e.g. very challenging room acoustics).

2. If you have non-Naim sources (e.g. tuner, CDP), 3rd party ICs may be essential unless the source has a DIN output. If it does, the Naim ICs are a good starting point, which in most cases will deliver the goods. However, 3rd party ICs may provide a useful means of system tuning where a non-Naim source is not perceived to be performing at its best.

3. With Naim electronics driving non-Naim speakers the position is more complex and harder to assess. Some non-Naim speakers simply don't give their best with A5. Before commiting to buy A5, get your dealer to loan you a 'burned-in' set for home audition.

If you have any reservations about how your speakers sound, try an alternative cable but compare it with the A5 as a reference. A different speaker cable will almost invariable produce a different sound but not necessarily a better one.

You may have to try 2-3 different cables, before settling on the one that works best for you. It may even be A5! When selecting an alternative cable, always bear in mind the Naim recommended electrical specification for speaker cable and avoid using anything that diverges too far from it.

David

I recently bought a MusicWorks Megablock 6 gang trailing socket. Most definately a good purchase, IMO, and others here rate their mains leads which I have not tried.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy

Nait 2 worked best with short-ish runs of DNM Reson.

NAP250 works best with NAC-A5; sure, I can get more detail from a Nordost cable, I'm sure, but there's something cohesive and musical about the A5 which makes it worthwhile.

SPM DININ is better between cdp and 52 than is standard Naim snaic. However, in retrospect it's not even 20% better, though at new prices would cost 8x as much. Go figure.

John

Pre the mains spurs i used kimber cables with my Naim kit, and was happy over the differance it made to the sound.

Now post spurs I have gone back to the Naim supplied leads through out - more of everything. Now looking at my Kimber powerkords with increasing suspicion...

quote:

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Originally posted by terra plantsa:
go ahead...dive in...complete the epiphany..you know you want a naim amp i suspect you're like me (as some others i know, too). if it's not triodes (SETs), it's naim, and vice versa. i even tried 47 labs, densen, pass aleph, and nope, it's still naim. i hate it but i guess you can call me a reluctant sheep at this point

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Ha, Terra. I am a closet solid state lover. I continue to use my SET amps since they complement so well with Naim. I figure don't ruin a good audio vibe.

As you are already aware, they can share very similar characteristics anyways.

Just out of curiosity, what was lacking from 47Labs? I am not intimately familiar with their amplifiers, but their front end stuff gives off a similar persona to my Naim player.

quote:

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Originally posted by terra plantsa:
i actually still like the gaincard (unlike the aleph and other solid state "contendahs"), but over time, i get the feeling that something is missing, like something is given up to get that speed and transparency. i think it's the meat in dem bones, i need more...thus, naim.

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terra,

Which speakers are you using or have you used with Gaincard?

47Lab stuff is very similar to Naim in that adding on a larger power supply changes things quite a bit.

...and ditto. it's a shame with people's perception regarding valve amps. Automatic 'round earther' labeling!

Terra,

If Naim ever made a DAC, I'd be using it for my music server. I use Shigaraki DAC and Dumpty power supply. They are groovy yet natural sounding as Naim with enough insights.

Their transports are, indeed, quirky. Altho, I'd say they are about *strange* as Naim players down to the dinky puck.

thanks for your reply, guys.
Imysefy using a pair of american spk, to me, it sounds a bit easy for my ears compares to the dyna I used before, I connect it through a pair of NBS Omega IV spk cable with my 150, it certainly perform differently from the NACA5, the implementation of the high to low frequency is a totally different thing, and the power from the 150 was delieved to the spk more efficiently, I won't say the word "better"(though my friends said so)but it is different and I like it more than the naca5. But the catch is that it cost 7 times than my old naca5!
And I add a NBS Monitor cord to my 150, which is a 2nd hand from a friend, again, it transform my 150 into another machine, the attack, well, I must admit, has changed into a far more relax manner, but the tension is gone and the power seems increased.
At this moment, I am not sure it is still a Naim sound anymore, I think I have "rounded" my naim combo, more test and listening is needed to see if this is the way I should go.

Any experience on the CDP's and Cap's power cord?

ys,

I am amased NBS is working with Naim power amp.

If you prefer the NBS sound, stick with Omega. They are faster than the rest of NBS offerings. Monitor, I'd think, would be much too much slow if you are running all naim system and I don't even know if they are 'healthy' for Naim amps.

I still use NBS speaker leads, but I am not running Naim amps.

kuma,
don't be amased, only a little experiment.
It offers something that standard cables doesn't, of course, the original has something that other cable couldn't provide.
Yes people choose naim because of the character, all I am trying to find out is if it can do something more without let go of its merits. That's why I post this question to seek advice/experience from those senior members like you.
BTW, you said 'healthy', you mean safe?
ys

ys> You are definitely a traitor now...

Btw, I just ordered my CDX2 today with the old price. And it will arrive in 5 weeks.

Hey, I am still in love with my system
CDX2 is on the way? next move?

At first, the next move maybe LP or a HighCap, but the new pricing is scary.

Btw, I just power down my sistem. Since I got 5 weeks, I think I can power up them tomorrow and let them burn in again.

quote:

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Originally posted by ys:
don't be amased, only a little experiment.
It offers something that standard cables doesn't, of course, the original has something that other cable couldn't provide.
Yes people choose naim because of the character, all I am trying to find out is if it can do something more without let go of its merits.

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ys,

I don't know about thier speaker leads, but, I intended to use NBS elsewhere as I have done with any of the gear came through my house. One thing with NBS, since they do not convert thier cables to DIN, I used XLR/RCA adaptor ( not really ideal ) vs. DIN terminated Chord.

Naim started to put on RCAs for diversity, but, I am now doubtful if the implimentation was half-hearted or afterthought on their part. I guess that the maximum performance is had with DIN connection engaged. So, any aftermarket cables endusers use would have a handicap to start with.

I have never heard NBS sound the way they did in any systems before.

You can experiment with other leads such as Cardas, Audience or Nordost who can terminate the cables with DIN, but, I just didn't think the time and money spent to obtain those cables weren't worth it for me. Especially, I got the desired results from NANA recommended cables.

NBS, in general, are very expressive and they are my favorite and have used 'em last 5 years in various systems.

Only time they worked right was when I used non Naim preamp, NBS IC sounded better than Chords off CDX2.

I haven't bothered trying NBS mains with Naim only becuase I can't really get 'em to work in the space in the main rig. I did try NBS Black Label on a bare CDX2 in a different setup ( non Naim ), and once again, it did not help much. One other main I tried was Siltech G5 which was a bad idea.

Nordost mains are highly recommended in the press and this board for Naim gear, but, I am hesitant to bother with them since my past exprience with them were not really positive, either.

The stock cords do not add air, or open up stage as others, but they really seem to be in keeping with Naim's house sound and they sound just about right to me.

Cable swapping can be fun and rewarding. Whatever you end up using, keep us posted.

quote:

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BTW, you said 'healthy', you mean safe?

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With speaker leads with a wrong electrical characteristic might not only hamper the performance of the amplifiers, but damage them. This might be a myth from the past and perhapse newer Naim amps are more tolerant of aftermarket speaker leads, however.

If I were to run naim amps, I would for sure check with factory and cable producers, just in case.

dear kuma,
thanks for your advice, considering the budget, I don't think I can go any further in this experiment
At this moment, I am using a NBS M2 power cord for my 150, and a pair of O4 spk cable connecting the 150 to my spk and all other ICs are standard naim stuff
The sound, as I said, is not very naim, and the attack is gone, but with sweeter and more relax sound. I am not sure if I miss the old sound of my system, but I am quite aware of what I have lost(or gain), the jazz is now less involving while the classical seems to have more authority, and more powerful(though much slower). Maybe a few weeks later, when I put my naca5 back(just to make sure I did the right thing), I can make my final decision
At this moment, I start to worry about the possible damage that a non-naim spk/power cord can do to my amp......anyone could kindly enlighten me?

Has anyone heard or know anything about the Vertex AQ cables Paul Messenger raved about in the context of his Naim system in the new issue of HiFi +?