French Tyre Manufacturers (and the FIA)

beat me to it Deane! Its a disgrace..

Still, at least England beat Australia (again) at the cricket!

Ditto all the above

Anyone fancy shares in michelin?

What an absolute disgrace.
I have a feeling there will be a thing or two said about this at Goodwood next week.

Stupid stupid stupid. But there you have it. The letter of the law was adhered to - which tells you all you need to know about an organisation that pretends to be a sport.

Fuck 'em.

Would anybody give a toss if f1 went belly up? I used to love it, now, [& I don't just mean from today],couldn't really care less.
matt.

The GPWC teams will be laughing quietly to themselves.

Tony

Amid all the disgust, I think it's worth noting that at least Michelin had the integrity to (in effect) pull their tyres from the race instead of allowing their teams to gamble with drivers' and spectators' lives...

Personally I think that 'integrity' may have been somewhat spured by the thought of litigation... they were, after all 'racing' in America.

Between all of them it was still a complete & utter disaster.

I understand that the Michelin runners were prepared to race - but take no points - if the chicane was added before the final corner. Seemed to me like a reasonable compromise but sounds like Mosely and Ecclestone weren't having a bar of it.

Brundle was superb telling Bernie that he was going to try and get a sensible conversation from Mrs. E !

Nearly as funny as MS and RB nearly knocking each other off the circuit !

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
Seemed to me like a reasonable compromise but sounds like Mosely and Ecclestone weren't having a bar of it.

so imagine they'd put in a new chicane. Have you even bothered to stop and consider the safety implications? None of the cars were setup for that, none of them would have been able to test. What would have happened, for instance, if someone's brakes had failed due to the extra stopping required by the chicane? What would have happened had there been a huge accident at the chicane and marshals were killed because of the hastily arranged facilities?
The michelin teams were given the vastly safer option of running a bit slower through the last corner. They could have done so and still lapped faster than the jordans/minardis and therefore claimed valuable points. It was their decision not to.

The chicane scheme was madness. How can you have the teams spend days testing and qualifying on a circuit only to change it just before the race to suit one tyre company? If one of the teams found they were having some difficulties with a corner at the next race should that have been changed as well?

Michelin fucked up, and fucked up badly, however the current regulations which are now in place in F1 don't help especially as they are still missing the point about actually bringing in some racing. The whole F1 circus is a disgrace now and has been ever since Ecclestone got his dirty paws on it.

Steve and John

You're both quite right really. Chicane would have been too great a workaround. Yes, safety would have been a concern but given that the Michelin runners would have taken no points the Bridgestone runners could have taken the chicane conservatively. But really, changing a racetrack's corners would have been ludicrous so cancel what I've just said I guess.

And it really was Michelin's fault but just exacerbated by the new rules.

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
exacerbated by the new rules.

the old rules wouldn't have helped them either - you still had to nominate your compound (one only) before qualifying so they couldn't have just brought in new, untested tyres. Michelin's really been pushing the limits all year - their tyres always look completely stuffed by the halfway point of races. You'd think after Renault's performance at Monaco they would have gone a little more conservative. Instead we end up with today's farce.

quote:

Michelin's really been pushing the limits all year - their tyres always look completely stuffed by the halfway point of races.

Not looked at the Mclaren tyres then? Ignore Germany they were rooted bt the driver.Renault were hard on their tyres though. In fact it has been the Bridgstone tyres that were shagged.

Howard

It seems F1 is doing its best to implode. Before this season I han't watched any F1 for about 5 to 6 years and only took a cursory look at the results. Prior to this I would probably watch 10 to 15 of the races live on TV each season.

This year I think I've watched about 1 full race and bit's of 2 other races on TV (didn't see anything of the farce this w/e since I was away).

How could this happen? I agree that you can't change the circuit just before the race because some of the teams are not prepared for it, but just how did it get to this?

What is the rationale for 1 set of tyres, if the rules had been different then the race would have gone ahead as normal, but again you can't just change the rules because some teams don't meet the requirements.

Also one of the races I watched was Barcelona I think where Raikonnen's tyre went on the last lap and could have been a lot worse had he hit the other car (BAR?). Why pursue a rule that to me seems dangerous and has now cause a grand prix to be effectively cancelled. The teams have to chhose the tyre before the weekend starts or just qualifying? it's like saying they have to set up thier car before arriving and not allowed to make any changes once they are there.

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:
In fact it has been the Bridgstone tyres that were shagged.

I don't supposed you'd care to explain then why the Ferraris are always relatively quicker towards the end of the race?

quote:

What is the rationale for 1 set of tyres,

to save costs

quote:

if the rules had been different then the race would have gone ahead as normal

they are still allowed to change tyres if there's a puncture or other safety concern.

quote:

Raikonnen's tyre went on the last lap

Raikonnen's tyre did not go, his suspension broke due to the vibrations from the tyre. They could have changed that tyre but that would have put them in 3rd place, instead they chose to gamble on the win.

quote:

The teams have to chhose the tyre before the weekend starts or just qualifying?

The tyre manufacturers can bring two compounds per team to the race. The teams practice and then each driver choses his compound for qualifying/race. Sounds like Michelin only chose to bring one.

In the time available to come up with a compromise, the complex rules and possible penalties could and should have shaken something out that was workable. This would have left the rest of the front runners fighting for third place downwards, a situation that Ferrari deserved because they brought the right tyres.

quote:

Originally posted by John Sheridan:
The tyre manufacturers can bring two compounds per team to the race. The teams practice and then each driver choses his compound for qualifying/race. Sounds like Michelin only chose to bring one.

I think Michelin did have two compounds with them however as it was the basic structure of the tyres that were the problem neither option was going to be safe.

quote:

I don't supposed you'd care to explain then why the Ferraris are always relatively quicker towards the end of the race?

Always is a dangerous word to use. MS wasn't even in one race because his tyres exploded and a couple more he struggled with treadless rears quite alot slower than others.

Howard

quote:

Raikonnen's tyre did not go, his suspension broke due to the vibrations from the tyre. They could have changed that tyre but that would have put them in 3rd place, instead they chose to gamble on the win.

The tyre change would have put in 3rd on the track and then if the stewards had decided his tyre was not unsafe then he would be penalised, I assume either time penalty or disqualification. This seems to be a dangerous situation because if a team thinks a tyre is unsafe this will make them go with the unsafe option first.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve G:
I think Michelin did have two compounds with them however as it was the basic structure of the tyres that were the problem neither option was going to be safe.

from the fia press release:

quote:

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

Michelin stuffed up! Pure and simple. Unfortunately, fans had to suffer. I certainly would not be happy if I had paid to see it.

Paul Stoddard is a hot head. Simply mouthing out when he is not happy. He cannot blame Jordan for wanting to race, money is involved. Lots of it. So to justify his team racing after saying they wont, he blamed Jordan. We know how much Minardi need the money.

I don't believe a word the FIA say.

The reason there wasn't a race is completely down to the FIA, a consequence of the way they run the sport leading to the problem and then their failure to produce a realistic compromise. I can't really fault Michelin for wanting to be competitive, that's the whole purpose of racing.

FWIW the idea that the Michelin runners could have just driven slowly around the banking is laughable. But there would have been no problem with a chicane, especially given the 48 hours available. The braking requirements would have been nothing like as tough as last week's Canadian GP, so all the bits were available in the containers. And racing drivers can stand circuit changes, it's their job.

It's a real shame that the one group of people in F1 not subject to the rules are the FIA, they are plain incompetent at this level.

Paul