Pop music in our music collections

Ahhhh, Bytes. I've not spun that one for a while so I gave it the once over last night after yesterday's posting(s). I've always liked the album but it's surprising how fresh most of it still sounds even after eight years or so.

I'm not sure how much Black Dog stuff you've got but it's well worth searching out a copy of "Virtual" and the it's remix. They'll be pretty hard to get hold of but Virtual is a classic 12" (and worth a few bob too) which contains and excellent B side "Ambience with Teeth".

Johnathan

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(Keep failing to find SAW I)

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This is one album that I'd recommend you buying. IMHO it's a fantastic album and one you won't regret getting. "Tha" is wicked.

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On my to buy list currently are:-

Black Dog Productions Bytes
BDP ?
Plaid ?
Speedy J Ginger
B12 ?
Fuse ?
Plastikman Sheet

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Not sure about BDP. From my experience it stands for Boogie Down Productions and is/was a hip-hop duo consisting of the now deceased DJ Scott la Rock and KRS One. Still good though if you're into that old skool hip-hop thang.

Plaid is pretty good and did a bit of stuff on Bytes. I have listened to Trainer and quite liked it although IMHO it needs a fair bit of listening to get into.

Not sure about B12. I may check them out myself so cheers.

Fuse and Plastikman are one and the same - Ritchie Hawtin. In both forms you are now crossing over into Detroit Techno which is something else entireley (and wicked too). Dimension intrusion is a good album but I'd advise a bit of caution with his Plastikman stuff as it tends to be very, very minimalsitic. I like minimalistic but IMHO it only really works with 2-3 decks where you can layer the tracks etc.

Tony/Johnathan

I'm not sure how deeply into the scene you are but if you like Ritchie Hawtin's stuff then I can happily suggest some other Detroit Techno stuff that is worth checking out. Don't be fooled by the "techno" bit though as it's not all bangin'

Have a good weekend

W

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I'm not sure how much Black Dog stuff you've got but it's well worth searching out a copy of "Virtual" and the it's remix.

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I've got all the albums I know of, but don't have any singles. I have Bytes, Temple of transparent balls, Spanners, Parallels, Music for adverts, plus the Applied Rhythmic Technology comp that features a couple of early tracks and I also have the Peel session. Got all the Plaid stuff too.

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Not sure about BDP.

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I suspect Jonathan's list was largely sourced from me, so it probably refers to Black Dog Productions!

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Plaid is pretty good and did a bit of stuff on Bytes. I have listened to Trainer and quite liked it although IMHO it needs a fair bit of listening to get into.

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Plaid were half of Black Dog Productions, they split off just before Music for adverts (and that album suffers massively as a result - its the only weak one released by either band). Trainer is a compilation of early stuff that was released either under the BDP name or as Plaid - it contains some truly excellent material. The other Plaid albums (Not for threes, Rest proof clockwork, and Double figure) are all IMHO stunningly good.

BDP and Plaid are to my mind responsible for some of the most innovative and original music produced in any genre during the 90s. Buying Bytes when it came out changed the ground rules for me, this was a album that sounded totally unlike anything else I had ever heard. The obscure timing and unusual though truly melodic nature of this music remains fresh today. Essential stuff. Their influence can be heard today throughout the electronic scene right through to works by massive sellers such as Radiohead, Bjork etc. To my mind they were the Neu! or Can of the nineties, no one really noticed them outside of the music scene so they did not get any real public acclaim, but their ideas will be reverberating around for years.

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Not sure about B12. I may check them out myself so cheers.

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I have both the B12 albums, and they are very good - both fit very well with the Warp AI feel. I don't see them as being the real innovators that BDP were, but its good stuff nonetheless.

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I'm not sure how deeply into the scene you are but if you like Ritchie Hawtin's stuff then I can happily suggest some other Detroit Techno stuff that is worth checking out.

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Yup, go for it.

Tony.

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Originally posted by Steve Catterall:
Oasis sounds great on my system - sounds like snobbery to me

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I bought "What's the Story" because I thought the songs (Champagne Supernova excepted) were between quite and very good. But the quality of production is self-evidently dire: for example, the strings on Wonderwall sound considerably less like strings than the ones on my old, second and rather scratched "A Collection of Beatles Oldies" take on Eleanor Rigby. George Martin knew how to record things well, whoever does it for Oasis either can't or won't AFAICT. I don't listen to WtS as much as I might because I find the production so grating, nothing to do with the band.

Pete.

Bit that sounds OK…

Guitar intro and solo singing

UP TO

"backbeat, the word is on the street that the fire in your heart is out"

On the "backbeat" the drums start (nice idea) and the rest of the band come in.

It then starts to go horribly wrong as the overall mix just sounds like mushy grunge with no definition in the sound of the individual instruments - after the very good sounds of singer + guitar.

It is almost as if they have one microphone and with only one guy using it, sounds OK. Right - unlikely to be the case - but do we have any sound engineers out there (I'm sure we do) who can suggest what is going wrong - and could it be sorted by a remixing (a la Mobile Fidelity - but not them 'cos they have gone bust) or is the original recording un-savable?

Anyone else feel this summarises the problem?

Cheers
Jonathan

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It then starts to go horribly wrong as the overall mix just sounds like mushy grunge with no definition in the sound of the individual instruments - after the very good sounds of singer + guitar.

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I am not that familiar with the Oasis stuff, I have not heard this track on a decent hi-fi, just in clubs and on TV, though my guess is that the end product you hear is what they wanted and aimed for in the studio. On the TV or club systems I have heard their stuff does work, and whilst I am certainly not their greatest fan, I do think I understand pretty much what they were after… sort of strum strum strum sing sing sing KARRRUUNNNGE!

Tony.

I think Tony has hit the nail on the head - what you hear is the sound they were after. It may well sound dreadful on some systems ... but I've heard loads of stuff sound dreadful on some systems. On my system it really rocks. Now music for pop people

Jesus Of Cool XXX

Maybe I just don't dig the whole thing that is Oasis - if I just didn't dig all of it - wouldn't be a problem. I guess my problem is that I only half dig it.

Carrying on digging
Jonathan

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Anyone else feel this summarises the problem?

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Do you listen to everything in this analytical fashion?

Oasis is rough and ready music (though lyrically, for pop, well written) recorded the same way. You like it or you do not, whatever system it is replayed by.

cheers

Nigel

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Do you listen to everything in this analytical fashion?

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No.

But I start to when something seems to be spoiling my enjoyment. Moving from listening to this in the pub to on a good system created such an environment.

You are probably quite correct - I just don't like it.

Jonathan

If this is so, then the Sex Pistols really weren't that different to today's manufactured boy bands, were they?

And, just as a matter of interest, does anyone who's listened to REM since Murmur really think that Reveal is a good album?

And for the record I agree with Woodface on the pop-sounds-better-on-a-midi-system stuff ;-)

I wouldn't say either of those was true

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I'll agree that the Monkees were initially a manafactured band who used session musicians at first, but they later produced some fine songs which they both wrote and played on as their musical careers matured.Everyone seems to dismiss them as a musical joke and overlooks the fact they actually made some great records.
Right,Got that of my chest..on with slating Oasis...

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Are you saying that the Monkees didn't make any good music ??? Or that they weren't particularly interested in the music.

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Indeed, no slagging off of the Monkees here please, they did some great stuff, and Head is IMHO probably the best music movie ever.... "The problem with the young people of today is that they might get exactly what they want". Nearly every line of that film is a great cut up. Total drug fueled weirdness, and there's nowt wrong with that!

Tony.

Why are the Beatles usually hailed as one of the most important bands of the last century whilst the Monkees are never mentioned in this respect?

The Beatles started life as a pop band, as did the Monkees. The essential difference IMHO is that the Beatles existed because Lennon & McCartney had an inate drive to create music - pop music initially and more interesting stuff later. To my knowledge (and I admit I'm not 100% certain), the Monkees were brought together by forces outside the band, in much the same way as today's boy bands are.

All I meant was that music which is generally perceived to be "good" is born of an expressive desire within an artist. Music we consider "bad" is usually perceived to be created for commercial gain and has as such nothing to do with artistic expression.

To add to the confusion, we often find that the commercialism of the past is romanticised and percieved as representing the highest quality in the present (this applies to all forms of art).

Now, what do you lot reckon about the Sex Pistols, and REM post "Automatic for the people"?

[This message was edited by paulm on FRIDAY 05 October 2001 at 18:23.]

It's always a nice day for it, have a good one
Steve

Music is personal and we all have our preferences.

The advantage of a good system is it allows you to explore music of any genre.

One man's poor production is another man's gritty realism. Either way it's pretentious bollocks.

cheers

Nigel

Is mine too.

Alex

(Double rations of LSD hepled).

Pete - nice one! Wish I could get rid of ours but having inherited 2 teenage chilspoons we now have Sky .

Mind you, I would miss the F1 racing...

steve

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As Stephen rightly points out Music sounds better through a good system, regardless of Genre.

Music is personal and we all have our preferences.

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The key word here is Music.

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The advantage of a good system is it allows you to explore music of any genre.

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The advantage of a good system is it allows you to explore SOUNDS of any genre and decide for yourself whether or not it's music to YOUR ears.

That's what It says here anyway...

steve