Chaps
I have enjoyed listening to my main system, over the past few years, through SBL's and my secondary system through Saras.
Despite my enjoyment, my son and my boss are always commenting that the system appears bass light. This led to conversations about true and authentic sound reproduction etc but no agreement was ever made.
To remind you, my systems are
Main...CDS11/XPS/52/Supercap/250/SBL's plus wireless and turntable.
Secondary...CD3.5+hicap/32.5+hicap/140/Saras
plus wireless.
Today I struck a deal with David, who recently advertised his late Grandfathers system and those tasty looking Isobariks are now in chez Mick and have replaced the SBL's.
The Briks certainly give a more open sound in my lounge which measures 21ft x 13 ft. There is a deaper and duller thud of base and it is a great improvement.
The downside is that they are big and because of a shelf, are about 8" away from the wall on either side of the fireplace. They do visually dominate the room somewhat, so the shelf is going to be modified to allow the Briks to the used up against the wall as they were designed to be.
I then intended to flog off the SBL's, but just for a buggeration factor, I replaced the Saras with the SBL's and although only powered by a 140, they sound great, so I may be flogging off the Saras instead.
I bought the Saras when the room was a 24 ft kitchen / dining room, but last year, Mrs Mick had a arched wall installed,as a divider, which means that we now have two smaller interconnected rooms. So the sound flows out from the dining room, through the arch and into the kitchen.
The result was that the Saras tended to sound boomy whilst the SBL's just seem completely at home.
I have been listening to the Briks all afternoon and it's great. The only downside is that they have ruined my back as I had to install them all by myself because the others were out doing their own thing. I am utterly wrecked and knackered but happy.
One question....would a pair of 135's improve the sound of the Briks?
I only have a 250 installed. It sounds good but I was wondering if the 135's would get more sound out of them.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Mick P
Paul
When I got the Briks home, the wife and I did a comparison between them and the SBL's for about an hour.
The Briks seem to have a more open sound which fills the room more naturally.
The SBL's are certainly faster, sharper, and brighter but they can't compare with the Briks for that dull heavy base.
For what it's worth, perhaps the Briks out perform the SBL's in a larger room (mine is 21ft x 13ft if you call that large) but the SBL's are certainly in their element in the dining room which is a bit smaller.
They are both good speakers but I have been pleasantly surprised by just how good the Brik is.
If it had failed to please, I would have moved it on, but I like it and it's staying.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Mick P
Vuk
JW and I had an exchange of e mails a few weeks ago whereby he advised me, that I was, in his opinion, a sad two faced individual who..etc etc.
In other words, I do not think I am on his Christmas card list.
I believe I am on his black list when it comes to buying Mana direct.
I am not prepared to travel the length of the UK, to visit the odd dealer who is prepared to do business with him. Mana dealers in the UK are as common as chicken with teeth.
Never the less, thank you for your advice, I might look out for a second hand one.
The bloody things are high enough as it is and the thought of increasing the height by another 3" or so, would undoubtably incurr the wrath of Mrs Mick.
Regards
Mick
PS do you intent to add more phases to your current set up?
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Top Cat
Having installed a pair of custom Mana stands for my Neat Gravitas, I can thoroughly recommend that you obtain the equivalent for the 'Briks, whether by purchasing via a go-between or by swallowing pride and placing an order directly with Mana (a chance to make bridges?).
IMHO Mana under floorstanding speakers is a great way of tightening everything up and extending the frequency response in both directions. Although trickier to setup, it is worth it. Whilst there was nothing wrong with the sound before, it's a bit like cleaning a dirty window - you could of course see out it before, but until you start cleaning it, you aren't really getting the best view - if you follow my drift - as a Leica man I am sure you will appreciate my optical analogy!
The other thing is that it actually looks good underneath the Neats - and will probably look good under the Briks - by breaking up the wood:wood interface - if you can get what I'm trying to say. Visually complimentary.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Andrew Randle
Mick,
Congratulations on the Isobariks, one of the best ever loudspeakers. I am sure that when you modify the shelf, moving the bariks up to the wall, the sound will improve tremendously.
Which year were they built? I have always preferred those of 1991 vintage onwards. Also, if you make them active, you have to option of replacing the treble and (maybe) the mid drive-units with the current ones - which are fantastic unlike the old Keilidh-type units. You need to be aktiv before replacing the drive-units as the active crossove can set the output of the new drivers correctly.
What's the veneer?
Andrew
Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by dave simpson
Mick,
Congrats on the new briks! FWIW, I found Mana DMS stands ruined the brik's performance not only in my system but in another's rig. Installation was by two different people with one rig all-naim gear, the other all-linn.
Some basic brik tips to get you started:
1. Place no further than 3 inches from and parallel to back wall.
2. Grills on - without grills they reveal extra detail but lose the tune.
3. Make sure Linn DMS stands are done up tight with no wobble between briks and stands or stands and floor... very critical because of the internal woofer... lotta energy working the cabinet.
ymmv...enjoy!
dave
135s are the deal!
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Mike Harris
.
Nice one Dave!!
Mick,
Why don't you give JW a call. An email apology is not quite the same thing.
One aspect of them you might be interested in is that Mana can supply custom made 'cut down' versions of the stands, which are about half the height of the standard ones. This would solve your immediate WAF problem, and give you the option of adding a couple of soundstages to bring it up to the standard height. What a bonus!!!
Go on, it would make Mrs Mick's xmas…
Big Mike
Btw/ We all think you are a sad two faced individual who..etc etc.
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Mick P
Chaps
I have been listening to the Briks all evening, this has been a good purchase.
I shall be modifying the shelf next Saturday and this will reduce the gap between the Brik and the wall from 8" down to about 1.5". Hopefully that in itself will bring about another improvement.
They were made in 1986 and immaculate. The previous owner has really looked after them, not a scrath or mark on them and they look as new. I think they are cherrywood.
I will take a few snaps of them with a new digital camera/recorder next week and let you see the results. It will probably take me weeks to figure out how to use the bloody thing, its far too complicated for words. I am already thinking of chucking it in the local river, bog standard cameras are a darn sight easier to use than these bloody things.
Anyway....time for beddies...I have about 2000 miles of driving around ahead of me this week, so it's early starts and late finishes. So not much listening for me this week.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by Dev B
Dear Mick,
Sorry to be a party pooper, but having tried Isobariks in my room (18'x15' opem plan) I thought, after one month of living with them, that they were worse than SBL's. For three main reasons really.
1) The bass while low is not precise and one cannot hear individual bass notes as clearly as SBL's.
2) The treble and mid range is not as articulate as SBL's
3) They are slower and more ponderous than SBL's.
While Isobariks are nice speakers and they are very musical they are not as accurate (and ultimately as musical) as SBL's. Try some harder hitting dance music and you'll see what I mean (if you don't have any of this Isobariks make a double bass sound like a triple bass!)
best regards
Dev.
ps. this was with CDS2/LP12/NAT01/52/135 as the system.
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by dave simpson
...just a wanky heretic.
"Given that nobody but the two of you (and perhaps that other guy)..."
nope, he likes the effect. I'm still alone and wanky on this one...
"have managed not to love the Mana effect under LP12 and Briks (probably most turntables and speakers for that matter),..."
nope, love it under the lp-12, even wankier I guess
"the probability of this being an enormous upgrade for Mick is a safer bet than any Naim strategy I've read about (except perhaps the NAP500)."
yer probably right, statistically speaking
wankly,
dave
P.S. Don't believe every thing you read ; )
Posted on: 09 December 2001 by dave simpson
Hi Mike,
Someone correct me.. I believe Mana's first and only "official" speaker stand was/is the DMS stand for briks. Like the rest of the product range, the only difference between stages, frames, racks, tables, wall mounts and speaker stands are dimensions-not construction technique or materials. In other words , a custom-made, special order Mana SBL stand will be no different from my old Mana DMS stands other than dimensions and maybe the special bracket on the rear of the DMS stand to keep the over-energetic briks from "walking" into the wall behind them due to cabinet vibration.
That's why many use the soundframe or stage as speaker stands instead of paying extra for custom design that is only needed for some peculiar cabinet shape or problematic design (energetic briks). The soundstage or sound frame will probably fit the majority of speakers sold....... not that I'd recommend it.
hth,
dave
Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Top Cat
I'd say the speaker stand, with its glass top and funny horizontal stumpy-spikes at the back, is a bigger upgrade than simply placing your speakers on soundbases - I have tried soundbases, flattops with boards and the custom stands (in the context of my Neat Gravitas) and the stands are best, although to be honest they are all good.
Board seems to make more sense in some ways but the glass works very well, and supports the weight of the speaker easily.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Top Cat
Have to admit it, but I think that one went a bit far
Seriously, though, I think we're all agreed that Mana deserves a good listen, and almost unanimously that Mana underneath Briks is a GOOD THING. It certainly is under my Neat Gravitas, although fiddly to setup.
So, Mick, I know you're out there. Why not give them a go, see how you get on? Show yourself to be a greater man than would let a petty personal squabble get in the way of great sounds?
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
Posted on: 10 December 2001 by Top Cat
Whether or not you like Mana under sources or amps, the fact is that it does seem to have a very positive effect under floorstanding speakers - way beyond the difference between (say) Phase 1 to Phase 3, for instance, under source, but in a different way.
It makes sense, when you think about it, though, as (no matter how good the source/amps) it is the speaker which makes the noise/music/sound/whatever - so to get that sorted out will allow whatever is further upstream to really shine.
TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."
