freedom of speech
Posted by: tpm45 on 27 February 2006
Looking at a post by Shayman involving freedom of speech it got me thinking that in this country and the USA freedom of speech is curtailed quite drastically. Look what happened to the BNP when they polled 1000000 voted in an election. The BBC did a hatchet job on that party to such an extent that their right to have a financial accounts, with Barclays bank, I think? was shut down in order to damage the party. Now a lot of people would be very happy with that situation, but I ask you was the establishments and I mean government ,was it right in the way they acted. After all the BNP never had recourse to use massive violence ie bombings and shootings in order to push their point of view across. Not like another party who happen to be very pally with Ken Livingstone, Nelson, and the odd USA President. namely IRA. Now lets look at another aspect of freedom of speech which has resulted in an American writer being virtually crucified. John NORMAN a writer of Scifi stories published his first novel in the late 60s and his books became an instant hit around the world. His stories centred around the planet GOR and were basically swords and sandals,soft violence very little sex,and no profanity. Yet this mans work brought thousands onto the streets in America to have his books banned,which they eventually were, especially when threats were made against book stores that contained any of his works. Normans books were banned because he put foreward another way of living, another type of lifestyle so to speak. His mistake if mistake is the right word was to suggest that females are inferior to man. That women are their for the pleasure of men,and enjoy being enslaved by men. I have to admit I dont know if his books were banned in Muslim countries, does the lifestyle ring a bell?. If you have never heard of this man type the word Gor into your browser and you will be amazed at the world wide following this mans work has. Yes you can buy the books on Ebay very cheap for the first novels that appeared. However the later books are quite rare due to the banning,but you can still get them,I think he wrote 25 novels in all. When you look at all the shit in this world which is allowed it is hair pullingly madness to kick this author stupid.
Posted on: 04 March 2006 by kuma
quote:
Originally posted by ROTF:
Last time I mentioned freedom of speech, Mrs Rotf told me to shut up.
ROTF,
Retaliate.
Posted on: 04 March 2006 by Martin Payne
[/QUOTE]I had no idea their were rules on grammar, spelling etc.[/QUOTE]
No smilies? (It's just the English language.)
quote:
Originally posted by tpm45:
I noticed nobody chatted about the content
OK, you only have a few minutes to post, but you expect everyone else to take ten minutes just to decode something impenetrable?
It's a fact of life that if you make your stuff easy to read, then people will actually read it.
quote:
do you honestly believe for one second, that Barclays Bank had a board meeting and decided to dump the BNP acxcount.
Abso-****ing-lutely.
quote:
David IRVINE. 3 YEARS IN GOAL FOR SOMETHING HE SAID 17 YEARS AGO. OK, what he said was stupid about the Holacaust not taking place,but he did ammend that statement later and apologised.
Without really following the case, I thought that was pretty stiff.
Of course, within a day or two of going to goal he made some similar allegations again, apparently.
That made it sound to me like he deserved to be n there.
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 04 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
Mr Irvine is a dissembler of the first water. He is selective and even blatantly blind in his use of evedence. My best English teacher was the first British Major into Bergen Belsen, [at Malvern, should any doubters be reading this. His name was Staniforth. He took the top English set, even if I was his despair].
Irvine should rot in 'jail' until he dies, in my view, for perpetrating such a calumny as 'holocaust denial.' From Fredrik, who is not Jewish, but knows about it all same.
PS: Good on Austria for at least doing somnething to mark this up. The devils are still about. Irvine is proof of that...
On freedoms, surely every freedom breeds a responsibility to behave aptly, and morally.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by tpm45
Wow I got picked on for my post being a little hard to make out. But some of the replies that followed are ...well a tad strange.
I agree with you Fredrik,your reply comes straight from the heart. I have visited Bergen/Belsen and felt the desolate feeling of horror that pervades the place, it is not true though, that birds no longer fly over the place.
Having said that I strongly believe that the English in general must accespt some blame for the Holocaust. After all it was us who put the idea into the minds of the Nazis in the first place......Does the Boar War spring to mind NO...shame on you. 50-70 thousand Dutch women and children starved to death in what the English called Concentration Camps. OK their were no gas chambers or firing squads,but does it really matter which way you kill people,their still dead. Hitler looked at that little scenario and aped it.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Having said that I strongly believe that the English in general must accespt some blame for the Holocaust.
Bollox - unless you consider Hitler to have been entirely the end product of more inventive thinkers.
Nietzsche, concentration camps, secret police, jazzy uniforms, institutionalised hatred of minority groups, Chaplin moustaches – all gathered to his actions, not causal.
Hitler was quite capable of being an arsehole without precedent.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
And still someone consider him like a great leader.
Our vice prime minister once said that Mussolini has been the greatest leader of '900.
A very reassuring point of view.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by erik scothron
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
quote:
Having said that I strongly believe that the English in general must accespt some blame for the Holocaust.
Bollox - unless you consider Hitler to have been entirely the end product of more inventive thinkers.
Nietzsche, concentration camps, secret police, jazzy uniforms, institutionalised hatred of minority groups, Chaplin moustaches – all gathered to his actions, not causal.
Hitler was quite capable of being an arsehole without precedent.
Of course Adam is quite correct. Add to this the fact that 'the final soluttion' may have been inspired by Hitler's hatred of jews but the plans, implemention and methods were all provided by others.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Steve Toy
Not forgetting the fact that the Versailles treaty after WW1 left Germany in such a dire economic position that someone like Hitler looking for a scapegoat in the form of a racial minority for the nation's ills was almost a certainty.
We have some blame for this.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by tpm45
Sorry Adam but there is some truth in what I say Hitler also mentioned the ability of the English to manage India with only a small army. He actually thought he could do the same in the east, big mistake. Steve Toy is correct in what he says, regarding Germany being in dire conditions economicaly after the Versailles treaty. Her military forces,which had not been defeated on the battle field, were also severely depleated. Now what Im going to say now might hurt a lot of people,but I have spoken to many Germans in many parts of that country and the general feeling is that the Jews prospered during the 1st World War at the expense of Germans going hungary and in some cases starving. Wether this is true or false I dont know,but thats what many Germans believe,the old school that is. Im sorry but I dont believe that the Holocaust came about because ONE man (Hitler) felt bitter,if that was the case,to many people would have risen up to stop him. Hitler may have led the way but millions were quite willing to follow. When the Nazis aped the English, the were hoping to succeed in their goal,it cost the lives of over 6 million jews,but he failed and millions lived.
The English won the Boar War,or did they?? anyway they were successful with the camps,who knows anything about them today,or even cares.
Tony Blair has apologised to the Irish for Englands past behaviours in their country,wonder if he will ever say sorry to the Dutch. Next time your in Holland joke about this and see how long your teeth stay in your head.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Don Atkinson
tpm45
The views that you are peddling here are a disgrace to humanity.
To suggest that we, here today, are in some way partially responsible for Nazis exterminating millions of Jews during the period of the 2nd World War is despicable. In case there is any doubt about my meaning, let me make it clear - you are wrong.
It is equally wrong to peddle the idea that our forefathers, during the Boer Wars, were in any way responsible for Hitler's actions in WW2.
Hitler and the Nazis had a clear choice in their behaviour and actions. They made that choice, nobody else.
War, crime, torture, vile-wickedness has all been around for as long as modern man. Hitler and the Nazis had plenty of role-models to choose from. But none of these role models were responsible, directly or indirectly, for Hitler's actions or the actions of Nazis in general.
Your views, as expressed in this thread, strike me as running perilously close to incitement to hatred.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by tpm45
Somtimes the truth or as near damm it the truth can be very painful, Thank God (Am I allowed to say God) we live in an honest,truthful democrapic society....led by Mr Blair,Tessa etc etc etc and that is the end of this Post I started it so I finish it. My next bone of contention to be discussed is ........
The Secret Sexual World of Sunderland Football Club.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Don Atkinson
quote:
Somtimes the truth or as near damm it the truth can be very painful,
then no doubt you are feeling the pain intensely
cheers
Don
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by tpm45
Don read some good history books not published by English publishers,search the net. Im sorry you feel hurt by the post you are not to blame,nor anyone alive in this country today. However the actions of our country through history down the years, helped shape what other countries did. The Russian armed forces today and the tactics they would have used against us,were COPIED directly from German tactics in WW2. Dont feel hurt,just dont believe everything is black - white done and dusted its not. THE END
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
quote:
Originally posted by tpm45:
[...].
However the actions of our country through history down the years, helped shape what other countries did. The Russian armed forces today and the tactics they would have used against us,were COPIED directly from German tactics in WW2. ...
Dear tpm,
What the Russian Army
would have done to us in the West, was copied directly from German Tactics in WW2...
What ever the truth of this unprovable and hypothetical comment, I think you make your opponents case for them.
What the Russians
would have done to us
if they had not
thought it was a
bad idea. They excercised the
choice not to attack the West. Anyone who commissions an act of Evil is ultimately faced with
the choice of doing it or not.
Would that have meant we could blame the Germans for the hypothetical situation of Communist Russia over running of the West (if the Cold War become Hot), provided the Russians had coppied German tactics from an earlier period?
If that is what you are saying I do think you will have to explain, in an unprecedented way, what your logic is!
If you post to this again, I do hope that you take the trouble to answer this point, as it is certainly relevant.
Regards from Fredrik
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
My humble opinion is that, in time of crisis, there's always someone ready to put the blame on somebody else that, of course, is not strong enough to support the hit.
Nobody should forget that while germans troops were in Warsaw (a sad combination of words), building the ghetto and combing people in houses and streets, the russian army were on the other bank of the river doing nothing but waiting for the job to be done.
About 70 years ago was against Jews.
Now its against muslims.
Of course our governements can't tell us that crisis it's all China's fault.
China is a superpower.
Our governement (Italy) tell us that the fault is of all those coming from Africa that steal our jobs, want our women and try to live on our backs while, personally, i know that a lot is living on my back and they are all white and fat.
Isn't it strange that the center of the islamic anti western power was in Iraq?
Iraq was the more permissive country regarding religions.
On the other side Saudi Arabia governement, the greatest friend of America, doesn't allow the building of christian churches and still have executions by decapitation on public squares at the presence of the greates authorities.
Mussolini was a great defender of Jews in Italy, but in 1938 something changed and fascists decided to sell italian Jews lifes to Germany.
Italians have been the first to use phosphorous weapons against soldiers and civilians and thi happened in African war.
(Italians can be so hypocrite sometimes!)
We could go on for days, but in the end the inner matter of all this is money and power.
And distract your citizens from your errors and lies.
James Boswell wrote something about it.
Ciao
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Sorry Tarquin.
Pull the brake just for one time.
Anyway i'm not getting into it with you.
You're the kind of dancer that knows only one pas.
I could write more and more about the matter and besides very "verbose" i could get very boring.
Anyway it's sunday and don't want to give ol' Adam extra work.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by tpm45:
THE END
Good.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Gianluigi Mazzorana
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Adam Meredith
Mike - could we tone it down among (otherwise) friends.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Don Atkinson
quote:
Im sorry you feel hurt by the post
I'm not hurt. Read my post. I was educating you and refuteing the malicious hate that you are peddling.
I don't believe you feel sorry. But its not relevant anyway.
Cheers
Don
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Earwicker
quote:
Originally posted by Adam Meredith:
Mike - could we tone it down among (otherwise) friends.
Oh let them have their fun. Nowt like a good fight of a Sunday evening!
EW
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Malky
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
My humble opinion is that, in time of crisis, there's always someone ready to put the blame on somebody else that, of course, is not strong enough to support the hit.
About 70 years ago was against Jews.
Now its against muslims.
Our governement (Italy) tell us that the fault is of all those coming from Africa that steal our jobs, want our women and try to live on our backs while, personally, i know that a lot is living on my back and they are all white and fat.
distract your citizens from your errors and lies
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Excellent. Gems of truth in a thread which has contained a mighty amount of shite.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Adam Meredith
quote:
Originally posted by Earwicker:
Nowt like a good fight of a Sunday evening!
EW
Not much time left for you to nip out and have one.
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by u5227470736789439
Dear Adam,
EW and I are fast friends again, so who do you think we should fix the bout up with? Fredrik
Posted on: 05 March 2006 by Steve Toy
12 Years ago a chap in Russia by the name of Vladimir Zhirinovsky attempted the same trick in Russia under similar economic circumstances as Hitler. He was/is part-Jewish who nevertheless peddled a similar brand of anti-semitism as well wanting to partition Poland. Having already gained a simple majority in the Duma his popularity may have continued unabated but for the fact that he disgraced himself by throwing flower pots at protestors in Strasbourg as well as a glass of orange juice at another politician during a TV interview.
History, fortunately, doesn't necessarily repeat itself, but lessons from it can be learnt nevertheless.
Dire economic conditions + mad oratory populist + racist sentiment lurking somewhwere within most societies + a willingness on the part of a nation to embrace extremism as a solution = tyranny and conflict.
All of the above factors are necessary for the above catastrophic scenario. Al were present in the 30s in Germany. Fortunately not all were in 90s Russia.
Responsibility lies with all those behind all such factors both within and outside of any given nation state.
