552 Home Demo

Interesting thread. As I suggested on a recent thread on the merits of new style power amps vs 135s, .....I have long been convinced that the preamp is the more crucial component. When I went 72-82-52 the leaps in sound were much more fundamental than going 140-250-135s. I restate that it is unlikely that I could afford a 552 and 500 together......changing to anything less (eg a 300, or 252) would simply tantalise me that there was more....in for a penny in for a pound has always been my motto....so here is my question to anyone who may have done the comparison:

Which upgrade do I do first?:

(a) 52 to 552 or,
(b) 135s to 500

As I said above, my instincts would lead me towards the first choice, ie (a). I dare not get both at home together for a dem, because I may end up bankrupting myself to buy them both

Any help folks?

Laurie S

Laurie,

With NAim speakers - go for the 552
With non Naim speakers - dunno, try it first

I agree with Nick.

Dave, I am glad that you have enjoyed the 552 so much. I think that it is time for you to sell me your 52, after all how could anyone live with a mere 52 again after having experienced a warm 552 in its place. See you on Friday. Jay@LOOP

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Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:

Which upgrade do I do first?:

(a) 52 to 552 or,
(b) 135s to 500

As I said above, my instincts would lead me towards the first choice, ie (a). I dare not get both at home together for a dem, because I may end up bankrupting myself to buy them both

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Laurie,

I did all of this at home over a 3 week period a few months ago. I swapped my 135's for a 500, lived with it for a week, then swapped back to 135's and swapped the 52 for a 552. In my room and with NBL's I would definitely have gone for the 52/500 because the 500 made the NBL's boogie in the way that I had been used to with my active SBL's whereas the 552 just made them sound much more refined.

What the 552 does into a 500 is something else again ..

Anyway, I would have gone for option b, but I would urge you to listen to both options for yourself before deciding. Just make sure that the two beasties don't get too close to each other !

David,

I completely agree with your assessment of the 552, its a vastly superior pre-amp compared to the 52. Night and Day, Sorry.

It took my 552 more than two months to reach sonic nirvana.

I received a new CDS3 & S-XPS Burndy Cable about a month ago.
XPS2 nicely burned-in and warmed-up since November.

If you think the 552 is a revelation, hold onto your socks, the CDS3 is an even bigger difference.
Having said that, you may not be able to experience the full effect of the CDS3 without the 552.

I also feel that having lived with a 552 since November, that the CDS2 holds back the 552 rather dramatically.

"So I would probably recommend upgrading the XPS to a XPS2 with new S-XPS Burndy Cable first, then upgrade the CDS2 to a CDS3 next, then and only then upgrade to a 552."
Just my opinion.

I auditioned the 552 for some of my best customers using a CDS2 & XPS also the CDS2 & XPS2 (much better) but the results were not as good as I had expected or anticipated.
I've had those same customers back for a second listen, using the CDS3, XPS2 & S-XPS Burndy Cable hooked to the 552, they all said the same thing, a complete transformation to level that none of us had previously realized was possible. Wow, is the understatement of the century.

Also, don't even bother auditioning the CDS3 without the new S-XPS Burndy Cable.

If you holding out for the next statement CD Player from Naim it will be the 555, $35,000.00!

Hope this is helpful.

Best Regards.

Rob
Real Hi-Fi
Calgary

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Originally posted by RAM:
I also feel that having lived with a 552 since November, that the CDS2 holds back the 552 rather dramatically.

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Rob,

This also describes what I heard with the 552 into 135's which I felt were a serious bottleneck to it's performance. Into a 500 the 552 really breathes.

Whilst no amount of hyperbole could convince me that my system is being held back "dramatically", I guess hearing is believing and in this regard the golden rule is "don't do it if you can't afford it".

Thanks for the advice folks.....I did try (passive) biamping my Proacs with 4x135s. Making allowances for the fact that passive biamping does not really work (less coherence), the extra drive, punch and grip were quite awsome...amazing since all I was doing was relieving my own pair of driving one tweeter each.I cannot go active because(unfortunately) my room geometry precludes speakers that need to be mounted against a wall...I used to have SBLs and I fondly remember the qualities they brought.

So, whilst my Proacs are an easy load, I am positive they would benefit from the extra scale that a 500 would bring. However, as I stated originally, I am sold on "source first" philosphy....it makes sense to me ....when I got my 52, (and I finally got it set up properly) it brought the ability to make the system disappear and bring a lump to my throat..

In short...I have found that the extra power "amazed", whilst the better preamp drew me into the music more...or, if you like, the extra power made the music sound more physically real, whilst the better preamp made the music sound more seductive.

The paradox I found with the 52 was that whilst it made shortcomings of my (then) sources easier to hear, it still managed to make them sound better than my 82

All I am doing is extrapolating my experience, and this would tempt me to go for the better preamp first, though I am sure I would not regret either upgrade.

thanks again

Laurie S

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Originally posted by Peter Henry:
One problem I have with the 552 is the lack of phono input, as the majority of my music is on vinyl. The other is the outrageous cost!

What kind of turntable do you have David, and how does it connect up to the 552?

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Peter,

Input 7 on the NAC552 provides power as well as signal input for either a Stageline or Prefix. The performance of either unit when teamed up with the NAC 552 is quite extraordinary. Connected this way, performance of the phono stage definitely improves on a dedicated Hi-Cap and is more akin to having a dedicated Supercap - as such it could be considered a bit of a bargain....

Richard

Richard ,

and what about the 252?

Regards

NB

NB,

on the NAC 252 you can connect either a Stageline or Prefix through Input 6 (alternative) which will provide both power and accept the input signal.

This works really well but much in the same way with the earlier NAC 52, some will be perfectly happy connecting this way, others will prefer the dedicated Hi-Cap (or Supercap) route.

Richard

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Originally posted by Richard Dane:
Peter,

Input 7 on the NAC552 provides power as well as signal input for either a Stageline or Prefix. The performance of either unit when teamed up with the NAC 552 is quite extraordinary. Connected this way, performance of the phono stage definitely improves on a dedicated Hi-Cap and is more akin to having a dedicated Supercap - as such it could be considered a bit of a bargain....

Richard

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Does the 552 provide a power source for the Headline also?

Omer,

I think you misunderstood my post. I was referring to the relatively modest cost of adding an exceptional level of phono capability to the NAC 552...

Richard

Firstly, thanks to David Antonelli for allowing me to intrude on his privacy for the better part of 7 hrs. Secondly, the WB Act IIs are amazing speakers and demand only the best electronics.

Now let me just state that I can't compose the prose to give the 552 justice. I drove an hour to listen to it expecting to be unimpressed and thinking of what car might be a better purchase for him -- honestly. I only took a handful of CDs that were either 1) already in my Pepsi CD case or 2) were in my Onkyo CD changer.

It's been around a year since I had last heard his system. The first track or two didn't impress me at all. Then, as if my audio neurons suddenly began firing, I realized I was hearing something special. I don't want to re-state everything that's already been said so I won't. The most amazing thing to me was the control that the 552 brought. I thought the 500 brought that to the system but man, the 552 was now the conductor. Oh and the lack of strain was phenomenal; the sound was effortless. The volume knob was never an issue. You could turn it up as much as you wanted and you could almost hear the 552 say, "Is that all? Come on, don't be afraid. Turn it up!" Not a single hint of distortion or loss of control -- it was always clear. By the end of the night, the only word I could use to describe the system was PERFECT. It had PRAT but it also had a nice, big sound. The soundstage and image was real, not fake and overblown. The new gear is truly the best of both camps. I couldn't stop smiling.

All of this after only 48 hrs of being plugged in. I can't imagine the sound in a few weeks. Dave, knowing his system much better than myself, thought there was still a hint of harshness in the treble and a slight darkness to the overall tone but did note that both were improving. He mentioned that the bass had become deeper and fuller yet still tight which is scary.

If you can't afford it, don't audition it. Just don't. Great job by Naim but does it have to be that much more than a 500???

Source first eh? I don't think so. Ron was correct, don't underestimate the preamp.

[This message was edited by Arun Mehan on FRIDAY 30 May 2003 at 16:30.]

Arun,

Great post. Always great to have you down. But next time we'll try a different restaurant! Also, Craig at WB says the slight buzz on the woofer we noticed late into the evening on that raiohead track is probably just a wire that needs to be moved a little. Didn't seem at all worried.

While the Metallica and Daft Punk electrified with the shear mass and control (almost frightening to hear Metallica like that!) The stuff we were playing at 11 was like standing out on a hill at some grass roots folk festival. I could almost see those glow in the dark hoops people wave around at such events.

Jay,

You can have my 52 when I am in a position to spring for the 552, in 6-12 months. I have to go away on sabatical in the winter 2004 for 3-6 months and there is no way I am buying a 552 before I go. Just would be foolhardy. But yes I will get one. In the mean time, enjoy your new 82! See you ce soir, if I make it back from Ann Arbor on time.

Rob,

Thanks for the pointers on the 552 and CDS 3. In my situation I would rather get a 552, improve my 01 and CDS2 and wait for any CD upgrades. CD players are like computer products, no matter how much better the CDS 3 is, you can bank on there being a new and even better player a few years from now. A 552 first is more of a financial plan than anything else and from what Ron says, CDS2/552 is better than a CDS3/52 anyway. After what I heard this last week, I believe him.

cheers,

dave

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Originally posted by N. Mason:

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dane:
Peter,

Input 7 on the NAC552 provides power as well as signal input for either a Stageline or Prefix. The performance of either unit when teamed up with the NAC 552 is quite extraordinary. Connected this way, performance of the phono stage definitely improves on a dedicated Hi-Cap and is more akin to having a dedicated Supercap - as such it could be considered a bit of a bargain....

Richard

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Does the 552 provide a power source for the Headline also?

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While it can be done by using Input 7, it's not recommended because this screws up the earthing and hobbles the performance of the NAC552 which is a bit of a waste really....

Best to use a separate PSU on the Headline.

Richard

how about a 52 vs. the 252;is that an upgrade?

N. Masson
If you can afford a 552, a Hicap is peanuts.
Or is it you will sell your amp and speakers for a 552?

Peach,
IMO, yes, with a supercap2 (vs 52+sc1). But do the test yourself.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

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Originally posted by Manu:
N. Masson
If you can afford a 552, a Hicap is peanuts.
Or is it you will sell your amp and speakers for a 552?

Peach,
IMO, yes, with a supercap2 (vs 52+sc1). But do the test yourself.
Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

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Manu,I never thought of that, sell the amp and speakers for a 552, what a great idea! It appears P.M. in the Sept/Oct 2002 Hi-Fi Plus was telling porkies when he said a 552 could power a Headline, just shows you've got to get the true info. from the horses mouth. Also, if I didn't need a Hi-Cap, then its one less shelf
of a Fraim to buy-there's method in my madness!
Cheers, Neil

Dave

congratulations on losing your neighbours - I remember your posts of old with a big smile. I trust you're enjoying your newfound freedom.

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So last night it was all systems go and I played Johnny Cash singing Depeche Mode on repeat at full blast to celebrate the occasion and get a sense of what my system sounds like at high volumes.

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Which album is this? What DM track? I'm intigued, and would like to hear it.

Congrats also on finally getting a listen to the 552 in your own home.

I guess, as Frank rightly states - you're going to be so-oo broke.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

I heard a brand-new-from-the-box 552 (with 500/NBL) at my dealers.

Although the setup of the NBLs was far from ideal tonally (a recent installation, still being tuned), the 552 did extraordinary things.

On a relatively trivial level, initally it was quite hard to set a volume level. You'd set a nice level on a quiet intro, then the loud bits were much louder than you'd expect. (Not that this is a problem, quite the contrary).

I was amazed, though, at how the music was presented. Stuff that is more than enjoyable on the 52, suddenly has loads of additional musical insight laid bare before you. A Nils Lofgren track that sounds like he just misses the timing on a couple of notes is suddenly "a little pause here, a tiny emphasis there". On almost anything you play, there's such a wealth of interplay between the musicians. (Continues babbling, with small flecks of foam appearing at corner of mouth...)

This is at least as big a jump as the 52 was over the 72, although my dealer says a NAP500 is really required to let all the above benefits get through to the speakers.

cheers, Martin

E-mail:- MartinPayne at Dial.Pipex.com

Rico,

The Johnny Cash album is the new one and the track is Personal Jesus. He also covers Nine inch Nails! The whole album is covers.

Too bad I have to return the 552 tomorrow, as it seems we were just getting acquainted. Some perceived grain and hardness of tone from the first days has softened somewhat and a profound fluidity has filled my speakers, already prodigious in this respect. I have two 12 inch piles of CDs on my CDS2 I am playing so much. And tonight I hear the WDET live DSO recordings on my 01. Patsy Cline never sounded so sweet, Black Flag never so demented. I will certainly miss the 552 until I have the funds to buy my own.

Dave

BTW: Any truth to the review in HiFi + about NA-5 being inferior to the Nordost or is this just a subjective call? They seem to spend more time talking cable than 300! Maybe Frank Abela can comment.

OK, I give.

Here is the plan.
I am going to sell my CDS2/XPS1 and the 52/Super.
Replace them both with New kit....

Even the wife said,"ok".......

Now i'm really looking forward to hearing the gear at the show next Friday.......

Regards to all,

Marc

My 552 home demo has arrived and well it sounds OK.

For the first hour I played a few bits on CD and it was OK. I only have a CD3 but it lifted the performance to the level of a CDX2/XPS at least (remember the preamp was cold to start with).

I then switched to vinyl and was - well -pleasently surprised. The levels of detail were enormous, the sound stage (can Naim do that) was good and the Naim bits excellent. My triamped briks have certainly never sounded so good.

By the end of the evening the preamp was certainly warming up and just getting better and better. I heard all the control/bass weight/PRaT etc that I could wish for - I listened to CDS3/552/300/NBL at Naim recently and my own LP12/Ittok/Troika/Lingo with 552 into 3*250 and isobariks was at least as good as the Naim system in the midrange, far sweeter at the top and with oodles more bass weight, depth and feel - despite the fact that my tt is desparate for a service and the Troika is 10 years old.

Well done Naim a great product. Only one problem - my good lady likened the product (albeit after 30 minutes of CD only) to the Emperor's new clothes. How do I convinve her that something with an upgrade cost in the £10k region (I have 82/2*HI) is good value for money?!

Smike

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Originally posted by smike42:
My 552 home demo has arrived and well it sounds OK.

For the first hour I played a few bits on CD and it was OK. I only have a CD3 but it lifted the performance to the level of a CDX2/XPS at least (remember the preamp was cold to start with).

Smike

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If this is the case then the CD3 is more than good enough, what happen to the "source first" theory? Now the pre-amp is the most important thing on the chain?

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Originally posted by Ross Blackman:

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Only one problem - my good lady likened the product (albeit after 30 minutes of CD only) to the Emperor's new clothes.

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If your good lady couldn't hear much difference, how do you know she was wrong?

Ross

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Or she could have excessive ear wax. Failing that have you checked her vital signs lately ? Are her pupils fixed and dilated ? What about her pulse (does she have one) ?

Seriously, I think it is firmly established that the 552 is a major step up from a 52 with a CDS2 in one end and a 500 out the other, but I would be interested to know if there is a minimum configuration before which a 552 is a total waste of money.