DVD5 Sound Quality with CD's

forget the co-dac try the dc1, much more open and detailed.

I now have my dealer's player because mine has a Hi-Def output trouble.
My dealer's player is 3-4 weeks old and it works much better than mine, it goes lower and it is something like a veil has been removed. It is much more than a upgraded CD5 as I said before, it is much better in every way.

I load and load CDs in the DVD5 and it is each time better than what I expected. Even the qualities of the AV2 (direct mode) make me wonder. I really love that DVD5, I start thinking that 4040 € is a bargain

The DC1 is intended to be - the best digital cable we discovered.

When listening to the DVD5 with CDs - please ensure that you are using the internal decoder and turn off the display, as this will shut down the video circuits and further improve matters.

Good though the AV2's DAC is - there are big benefits in enjoyment to be had by using the "proper" one.

Steve,

I've been listened to the DC1 for the last few days, I'm going to switch back to the CODAC tomorrow and then write a few words.

Been distracted by a demo of a Chord DAC 64 on a DVD5 - which I've borrowed and am listening to at the moment. BLOODY good!!

Interestingly in the demo I listened to their DVD5 for twenty minutes before switching in the Chord, the system was:

252, 250.2, B&W 800s.

Sound? A LOT more bass than I'm used to! More importantly the tinny top end that I can hear at home (N.B. this is a VERY much an exagerated shorthand - see above) was completely absent, but left what I liked in place. Introducing the Chord took it up several notches.

Also listened to the CDX2 - and prefered the DVD5/Chord.

Listening to the DVD5, Chord at home - I've got a big smile on my face.

So far I've worked my way through a selection of:

Mozart; Bon Jovi; Eurythmics; Led Zepplin; Who ..and I'm currently listening to Kevin Spacey, the soundtrack from Beyond The Sea.

Only thing at the back of my mind is an interesting thread on PFM where the Benchmark DAC1 sounds interesting - 750 pounds to you 'Guv.

M

PS It also looks great, black bodywork plus a nice green glow out the top!

Morning Mr Underhill.
I'm looking forward to reading your piece when I return from a short easter break.
I still have dificulty in beleiving that 'digital' cables that transport nothing but a stream of 1's & 0's (or should that be on - off) can sound SO different and have such an effect on the overall quality of what you are listening to...
Please, dont tempt with the Dac's I have a much loved CDi that at some stage will need to be replaced :-( Now if the '5 is up to that kind of standard with some help then it is yet anothere box to consider!

Happy listening over easter.

Steve2701

I know what you mean about digital cables and had a similar view to your self on the matters. However I made a change last year to the Chord Company Coaxial Signature. The sound was improved no end expensive at £200 for one cable but well worth it

Neill

Initial Thoughts 2

Damn....this is not simple or straightforward, but subtle.

In my original post on this thread I wrote that my wife descibed the sound quality of the NAIM as tinny; I think that is an unkind exaggeration - but I know what she means.

I have been demoing a Chord DAC 64 Mk1 this weekend with the DVD5. There is no consistent 'best' sound between the DVD5 / current CDP / DVD5 + Chord.

The DVD5 + Chord marries the strengths of the DVD5 and current CDP - but this is all quite subtle. Occassional music is more straightforward, such as choral pieces - where the DVD5 + Chord is a clear winner.

The Chord has strong forensic abilities, seperating out the musical elements - but without lossing PR&T. This is not so important on music where the musical elements are simpler.

Another interesting point here was the original demo I did of the Chord. This was as a part of the following system:

DVD5, 252, 250.2, B&W 800D.

One of the primary things I noted was that the system output far more bass than my own. As a result I have been playing with my subwoofer settings this weekend. The result has been more bass - and the end of that tinny quality; which was also not eveident on the demo system.

The differences between the front ends in my own setup have become even more subtle.

I would characterise the Chord as giving a more analogue sound to vocals, increasing the soundstage size and placing things more accurately within them.

...but, don't take this to be a general and marked improvement to the presentation of the DVD5. The more I use the DVD5 the more I like it.

SO, what am I going to do? That's what I'm trying to decide today.

I am tempted to buy the 2nd hand Chord. But for similar money I could buy a 2nd Hand CD1.



Digital Cables

I have also been listening to digital cables:

NAIM DC1 / Chord Prodac / Chord CODAC.

I had expected to be thoroughly impressed by the DC1. I ran it in for six days and then did some comparisons, primarily using the overture from Lawrence of Arabia and audio concerts on DVD-V/DVD-A.

I then changed the cable connecting the DVD5 to the DAC64.

Conclusion - old cloth ears is back! Yes, I could hear differences; but I wouldn't descibe the DC1 as better. The impression is of more high frequency detail with the DC1. When I did a comparison to my family they preffered the CODAC!


I would feel far more comfortable saying the DC1 blew the opposition away. I'd strongly recommend an extended audition - which is one of the reasons for using a good dealership.

Martin

I am waiting for my dealer to receive a DC1 to test it. But I compared Prodac vs Digital Signature. The signature is much better (more precise with the high frequencies, more bass, and definetly more "analog".

I'll wait to hear you're impression with interest.

M

Morning all.
Blimey Mr Underhill, you dont do things by halves do you?!!
When you put up what you used primarily in your system, I did say I would hang back a little and wait for your results also.
When the DC1 was put into my system it realy did 'blow away' the oposition, but looking back now.. it was 'mere' QED Signature stuff, which I have to admit, did think would be well up to the job, as , after all, we are only transporting a bunch of 1's & 0's - or so I thought. If you want to hear how good the DC1 is to this let me know & you can borrow it with pleasure!
When you get to the cables that you use as standard, then I think, as you have found - the difference is far less clear cut, down to personal preference and 'differences' rather than being outright better.
I think at this stage we have reached the rules of diminishing returns good & proper.
You are correct in sugesting a good long audition is needed, as only then will you learn what you do actually prefer.

Good luck with the decisions ref the DVD5!
Happy listening & viewing.

Thanks Steve,

I didn't buy either the DC1 or the Chord DAC - still not sure if the latter was a good decision.

As I'm using up AL I'm doing a lot of listening.

I've burrowed a 2nd hand CDX that's warming up at the moment....I'll then compare to the DVD5 over the next few days.

Trouble is that you need to live with these things for a while to make any proper decisions.

M

DVD5 CD Quality


I have compared the DVD5 to:

My Current CDP, CDX, DVD5 with Chord DAC 64.

IMO the DVD5 is a very good CD player. To my ear I often prefer my current CDP because it sounds so good with the human singing voice, but this can be material dependent.

Example:

Led Zeppelin - Stairway to Heaven. Lots of detail on the DVD5 but when the vocals kick in the singer sounds nasally congested, an edge that I find offputting.

However,

Eleanor McEvoy - Music Of It All starts with some truly arresting drumwork setting up a steady beat - on the DVD5. My Current CDP is much warmer and fails to communicate this; and on this album the vocals are good on either machine.

This has been the problem for me with this process - it is frequently software dependant!

The DVD5 is forensic in it's ability to pull out and present detail.

On listening to the CDX it did not present the same issues with nasal congestion, although there is a clear family sound. However on doing listening tests to friends and family there was no clear winner. To my ears the CDX was clearly the better player - but the DVD5 does appear hoover up and present more detail. This caused one friend to consistently pick the DVD5 in the blind listening test.

The CDX offers the XPS upgrade path that I suspect would push it onto another plane to the DVD5. Unfortuneately NAIM chose not to allow such a route for the DVD5.

To me the clear winner was the DVD5 and Chord 64. I am still seriously thinking of buying this DAC, I was regularly staying up to 1am working my way through my CDs with this combination. Before doing this I am going to listen to the Musical Fidelity v3 DAC with PSU and tube output buffer next week.

If anyone would be interested I'll post my thoughts here next weekend.

I'll be making some notes about DVD-A sound quality on another thread.

Final Thought - The DVD5 is a very good CD player that uniquely, for NAIM, allows the use of an outboard DAC, but has no upgrade path within the NAIM hierarchy.

Martin

I realise this may come late but just in case no decisions have been made...

Did your dealer warn you that the DAC64 inverts phase? This means that when you swap to the DAC64 you *should* swap over the positive and negative speaker connections to maintain phase. If you didn't do this, then you did not hear the DAC64 at its best!

Chord Electronics are now able to modify DAC64s to maintain phase instead if you so wish. Personally, the whole idea of faffing around with the cables every time I went to CD put me off buying the DAC64. Only now would I consider it.

Frank,

No they didn't! ...and yes it is.

I've bought a Benchmark DAC1; and am quiet content.

Thanks for the thought.

M